Cost of electricity

[Briank]

We seem to have very high electricity bills compared to friends with similar appliances. Please would you compare our payments with yours and comment. We pay 117 euros a month for ten months based on last year’s consumption. We are on three-phase (should this make any difference to cost?) and the puissance is 12KVA (20A).

The appliances that we have are

Washing machine (6-8 variable loads a week)

Dishwasher (3-4 times a week)

Hot water 200l (3 hours a day)

Electric hob and oven

Kettle

Microwave

Pump for swimming pool (not heated) (6 months a year average ten hours a day)

2 oil filled towel rails < 1kw each on thermostat

2 freezers

1 fridge

TV computer etc.

Would we be able to lower puissance from 12KVA to 9KVA? Some friends seem to mange on 9KVA. Would changing to monophase be cheaper?

We have been on line to laregie but we were unable to put our consumption figures onto their chart.

Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.

[LesLauriers]

The key to this is how much you consume, when you consume it, and which tariff you are on.

 

You say you have paid 1170€ for 10 months, we pay less than 700€ for 12 months in a 6 bed house, very similar appliances (with pool) and use to yourselves, although with an invalid in the house there is generally a television in use all day and a convector heater running 24/7 as back up to the central heating in their room.

 

We use an average of 22kw a day roughly, and on a 9kva supply on Tempo we have never tripped the meter. If you have a newish meter it will tell you your maximum demand, however from what you have said I cannot see it being higher than ours unless you have everything on together!

 

Try this link:  http://particuliers.edf.fr/rubrique112.html for details of the Tempo option.

 

There are 20 very expensive days in the year, but you are told 24 hours in advance when they will be and we do not use the washing machine, tumble dryer etc on those days.

[Charlie Nott<P>Many Thanks<P><P>Charlie Nott<P><P><a target=_blank href="http:www.giteshols.com">www.giteshols.com<A><P>]

We are on 3 phase supply and not charged anything extra. I would be vary of your 2 oil filled radiators as these can guzzle electricity at an alarming rate. We use a wall mounted towel rail from BricoDepot that is rated at 50W.

When we changed to tempo our bills dropped from 120 € per month to less than 100 € per month. On the red days we just don't use the dishwasher and washine machine.

[Logan]

I would advise dropping your puissance to 9kW and going onto Option Tempo. The EDF inspector will tell you 9 will not be enough but it is. Just insist on the lower value because they always try it on. I used 7143kW last year for a smilar property minus the pool pump but I have some electric heating as background used on the night tarif. Total costs 700 euros.

[Ron Avery]

The key to your high bills is "3 phase" and your radiators.  3 - phase IS much dearer than domestic supply and you are compounding that by using electric radiators on this tariff.

Your electricity is far more expensive with 3 phase and unless you really need it get on to EDF and change it  It is quite commmon for it to be left available in farms, it was used for machinery with heavy duty motors and for some well pumps. 

Ask your local electrician or EDF to assess your requirements, it will be no good to you if 9KW isn't enough and your main supply keeps on tripping out! 

[Briank]

Thank you for your replies. It looks as if Tempo is the way to go. How do they inform you when there is going to be a ‘red day’?

Is kva the same as kw? Physics wasn’t my best subject! If we dropped to 9kva I think we would have to change to monophase as I believe that 9kva would only give us 3kva on each phase with triphase. If kva is the same as kw then the kettle would have to be on its own phase!

Do EDF charge for changing from tri to monophase, for changing puissance and for changing the tariff?

As for the oil filled towel rails they are our only form of heating in a large bathroom and shower room. I don’t think 50w would heat the rooms at all. The thermostats are set very low to take the chill off the rooms.

Brian 86

[LesLauriers]

[quote]The key to your high bills is "3 phase" and your radiators. 3 - phase IS much dearer than domestic supply and you are compounding that by using electric radiators on this tariff. Your electricity is...[/quote]

  "3 - phase IS much dearer than domestic supply"

Is it? I cannot find any information on the EDF site to indicate that it is. We did have a tri phase supply but EDF disconnected it and I have only ever been charged the published rates which leads me to believe that the cost is the same.

Can anyone else confirm this? I ask as I was considering asking for a tri phase supply for a pool heater.

[LesLauriers]

[quote]Thank you for your replies. It looks as if Tempo is the way to go. How do they inform you when there is going to be a ‘red day’?Is kva the same as kw? Physics wasn’t my best subject! If we dropped to ...[/quote]

EDF supply a small box which you plug into a mains socket. This box tells you which charging rate you are currently on and is updated early each evening to tell you what the next day charging rate will be, in addition it beeps to warn you if it is a red day the next day. The simple rule of thumb is that very cold weather = red. Holidays and Sundays are never red.

If you follow the link I gave you in an earlier posting you will find EDF post a calender showing the history of colours for each day throughout the year.

Switching to mono phase would be beneficial and there may well be a charge, best to ask at your local EDF office. We did have a tri phase supply but it was disconnected without charge when EDF had a problem with our supply, although the problem was later established to be unconnected.

Changing to Tempo did attract a charge of around 25€ as I recall.

Physics was never my thing but as I understand it 9kva allows for a maximum demand of 45k amps according to the meter we have only ever reached 30. I am sure that we could trip the supply if we used every appliance at the same time but it has never happened. I think 45 amp is equivalent to a maximum of 9900w in use at one time, someone else may advise.

 

[Baz]

[quote]We seem to have very high electricity bills compared to friends with similar appliances. Please would you compare our payments with yours and comment. We pay 117 euros a month for ten months based on ...[/quote]

The simplest and best solution is to visit your local EDF office with details of all your appliances. They simply put all the necessary information  into their computer and it then  gives the best and cheapest options for your particular needs and they arrange all the changes on the spot.

Baz

[Charlie Nott<P>Many Thanks<P><P>Charlie Nott<P><P><a target=_blank href="http:www.giteshols.com">www.giteshols.com<A><P>]

It would be interesting to know if EDF say that 3 phase is more expensive than single phase. We use a 3 phase supply for our pool house (3 phase pool heater and pump) and also we split the load over our house and gites to try and give an even spread over the 3 phases. This means that no one phase is heavily loaded.

[Logan]

If you go to EDF and list your appliances they will always tell you you need 12kW or more. It is not necessary for the appliances listed by the original poster. I have 9kW and I have never tripped the meter even with everything on at the same time. I actually tried it just to see what would happen. Nothing. EDF argued with me that I needed 12kW. It's just a revenue making scam.

[Baz]

[quote]If you go to EDF and list your appliances they will always tell you you need 12kW or more. It is not necessary for the appliances listed by the original poster. I have 9kW and I have never tripped the...[/quote]

You obviously had a bad experience. The system is computer driven and looks at individuals requirements before determining the best arrangement and certainly is not set at 12KW. I have used the service and know many people who have also been to EDF and they certainly do not tell you need that you need 12KW. In fact mine was increased to 9KW and even more importantly they checked their various plans to find out the cheapest one for my  requirements.

For over 15 years I have found EDF to be very business like and when they say they will come to you, have always arrived on time and one can even have arranged appointments via email with responses often within 30 minutes.

Baz

[jrhartley]

[quote]You obviously had a bad experience. The system is computer driven and looks at individuals requirements before determining the best arrangement and certainly is not set at 12KW. I have used the servic...[/quote]

Quote: "You obviously had a bad experience. The system is computer driven and looks at individuals requirements before determining the best arrangement and certainly is not set at 12KW. "

I am not sure how true this is - the independence of the EDF computer.  I have been in France for 18 months and when I arrived I gave them a list of my circumstances (working from home, always in France, at that stage had electric ballon, couple of convectors, tv, video. PC, 10 halogens, etc, etc) and they came back and told me that "option base 12kW" was the one for me.  I hadn't really done a lot of work on the prices then, but now I've spend over EUR1,000 on electricity for one person for a year, I have.  So after reading this thread with interest and doing some research on the EDF price plans, I called them this morning to ask to change to "option Tempo".  The woman insisted it wouldn't be worth my while changing because of the higher fixed charge (a difference of EUR60 on the 12kW option over 12kW base I believe).  I fail to see how her maths adds up - for 300 days a year the electricity per KwH is 1/2 the price under "option tempo" than it is under "option base".  For the next 40 days it is the same price under "option tempo" as I am currently paying under "option base", and for the red 25 days of the year its is about 20% more expensive than under my current contract.

Clearly I didn't need to do any calculations or have a fancy computer to tell me that unless I was planning on powering CERN's particle acclerator during those 25 red days, it wouldn't be long before I recouped the EUR60 I'd be paying in the higher standing charge.  Yet she's telling me that it would be worse for me.....   You've got to remember, government is looking to sell off this puppy, word has probably gone out to try to get the profits up ahead of the IPO.

Any thoughts?

[Logan]

I agree with you completely. Also I can only repeat you do not need a 12 kW. abandonnment. 9kW will be fine for the appliances you list.

[LesLauriers]

They must factor in a much higher demand on red days, which influences the figures they give out.

As far as I can see there are very few circumstances where anyone would wish to use anything other than Tempo.

My meter shows me the maximum demand, if yours is the same you will see whether or not 9kva is sufficient for you.