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French house prices fall


Llantony
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When we bought our house in August 2002 the exchange rate was 1.598. On this measure alone it has increased in value by nearly £7000.

I'm not going to get excited about though, the exchange rates can and do go down too.

The same thing is true of property prices and it's my guess that most of us didn't buy with the idea of making a profit.

Hoddy
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Just to go back to the agents commission discussion...

We have just put our house on the market and agreed with one agent that it would be "semi exclusive" in which case they agreed to receive 50% less commission.  As it is a relatively expensive house this would represent a saving to the buyer of many, many pennies and will therefore hopefully make it easier to sell - which is why we did it.

However, as we are also using a different agent with different commission rates it means that the property is advertised (inclusive of agents fees) in two different places at two different prices, which is just a bit confusing.

 

 

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[quote user="Nickndrachael"]

However, as we are also using a different agent with different commission rates it means that the property is advertised (inclusive of agents fees) in two different places at two different prices, which is just a bit confusing.

[/quote]

And very common.  I've seen the same property advertised in 4 places with 4 prices!

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This is not a problem..............we used Currencies4Less and I remember at the time sending them the money and wondered what I was doing sending cash to someone that I had heard about and was not a bank!  Are they still around please in that they gave wonderful service.  CA Britline (at the time of you know who) did not give such service and the Notaire once more thought ..................yes the English again...........'
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I have just come back and while i was at my estate agents i had a look to see if  some of the houses we looked at in may had sold and what new ones had come on that looked nice,I noticed that the ones that i looked at that i wouldnt of touched with a barge pole where still there, others we looked at that we didnt get because of other reasons that werent pratical for us, but were perfectly ok houses had sold, and the new ones he had in the window had jumped in price just a little bit,and by the look of his windows and inside i would of said he had sold a good 45percent of what was there in may, Its mainly down to the fact they speak fluent english, dutch, french, and german and they had a very nice manner. That every time we went into there office it was full of people looking and going out to do visits. they were always busy everytime we went in. I was contacted by a lot of estate agents after making inital contact, but found a lot of them just bombarded me with houses taking no notice of the requirements i had asked for, I must amit some of these i didnt answer, but the ones who took the time to answer me after reading what i had said and replyed with houses that where suitable i did reply to even if i didnt go to see them all but the ones i picked to see where the ones that lisen to what i wanted and had the houses i wanted to see. 

Casis have you become a one man band while i have been away?[:)]      

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No!  My question was: as the buyer pays the agent, why would sellers offer a lower price if I don't go via the agent?

When we bought our house we paid the price agreed with the vendor + the estate agent's fee.

For example: if price is 100k, buyer pays 100k + agent's fee = 108K (or whatever their % commission is). 

The seller gets 100k.  So why would the seller offer it to a buyer who doesn't go to the estate agent at, say, 95k?  They would lose 5k and not save anything as we would have paid the agent.

Everyone has to pay the notaire either way so I'm not sure that's relevant.

And it wasn't me who said the seller pays!

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Taking your example, if the seller chose not to use an agent he would price somewhere between 108,000 and 100,000 but certainly not below the net figure, 100,000, he would have got had he used an agent.

This really is all theory as it's up to a prospective purchaser as to what he might pay for any given property whether it includes an agent's fee or not.

Look at it another way: a buyer comes to you direct and says he'd like to buy your house but he'd prefer to have his hand held by an agent. You go off and find an agent and then tell the prospective purchaser that the price has gone to cover the agent's fee. An unlikely scenario but you never know!

Benjamin

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If have lunch in a French cafe/restaurant and happen to mention that I am looking for a house and ten minutes later the owners of a suitable house happens to walk and ask me to have a look at their house that they are selling.

Or if I ring up an AV number which turns up to be the owner.

I would expect to pay less than I would have paid if I had found the house at an Immos but the person selling would also probably expect to receive a bit more that they would have received after both Immo's and Notaire's fees.

<< For example: if price is 100k, buyer pays 100k + agent's fee = 108K (or whatever their % commission is).  >>

The quote above says it all for me. If a purchaser pays Euros 120k then the net to vender is about Euros 102k.   This means the house must got up by Euros 20k for you to get your Euros 120 back. This is one reason why the French house market is both illiquid and irrational.

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I guess that would explain it in some cases, but our village estate agent definitely charged commission on top of the price the seller agreed.  And the 2 people who've told me their house would be cheaper if I didn't involve the agent both have their houses with that agent!  This agent's advertised house prices do not include their commission.

So I'm still puzzled. If I see those sellers again I'll just have to ask them!

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[quote user="Llantony"]

I guess that would explain it in some cases, but our village estate agent definitely charged commission on top of the price the seller agreed.  And the 2 people who've told me their house would be cheaper if I didn't involve the agent both have their houses with that agent!  This agent's advertised house prices do not include their commission.

[/quote]

 

Llantony, I have a small place for sale I want 85,000 € for it, but you can also purchase it through an agent and pay them a 5000 € fee aswell if you like, which would you prefer 85k or 90k?

regards

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Prices though, how do you judge what is a fair price?

Seems in the UK I can get a feel for what price a property should be in the UK, plus there is now the Land Registry website where you can find out how much properties have sold for.

In France it seems that the variety of types of property is huge and the conditions vary so much.

Found some of the agents are good passing comments such as 'its over-priced' etc.

How do you pay a fair price, either private or via an agent?

Paul

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[quote user="Llantony"]

I'd obviously prefer to pay less but that is NOT what I said.  My example shows the vender selling for less if I don't use the estate agent - but the seller would therefore lose money so why would they do that?

[/quote]

OK I think I can see where the confusion is. The seller is selling his/her property through an agency who add on their fees to the sellers price and say that the combined sum is the price the property will be sold at. They now advertise the property saying there are no buyers fee (in some cases) or normally say the price includes the fees. Obviously they can’t include the notaires fees because they are a percentage and will change depending on the final sales price.

If you approach the seller direct then there are no buyers fees so to the buyer the price is less. The seller still gets the price he/she originally wanted so there is no loss to them.

Using figures already used here let us say the seller wants 100,000 for their house, the agencies fees are 8,000 so the agent advertises the property at 108,000. If you go to the seller direct and not through the agency there is no fee but the seller still gets their 100,000 (that’s assuming you pay the asking price). So it’s the buyer that saves because he/she has no agency fees to pay. The buyer will of course still have to pay the notaires fees but these can sometimes be negotiated with the seller like you agree to offer the asking price but split the fees 50/50 which in effect gives the buyer a discount.

It’s all a matter of interpretation really and I can see how easy it is to not understand. I found it a little complicated when I bought, it’s because we are trying to compare the French system to the UK one because that’s what we know but they are totally different. Bit like surveys really, you wouldn’t dream of NOT having one in the UK but in France the majority of properties (somewhere like 90% of them) are sold without any equivalent to a survey which is another thing some Brits have a problem getting their head round.

 

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[quote user="Quillan"][quote user="Llantony"]

I'd obviously prefer to pay less but that is NOT what I said.  My example shows the vender selling for less if I don't use the estate agent - but the seller would therefore lose money so why would they do that?

[/quote]

 Bit like surveys really, you wouldn’t dream of NOT having one in the UK but in France the majority of properties (somewhere like 90% of them) are sold without any equivalent to a survey which is another thing some Brits have a problem getting their head round.

 

[/quote]

Sorry to throw this in again but the vast majority of people buying property in the UK do NOT have a survey done. Because most people have a mortgage, a valuation is required by the lender and many people call this a survey as it's done by a surveyor. However it isn't a survey and it's misleading to refer to it as such.

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kathy

you are sooooo right!  most people do not commission surveys.  it seems crazy; here they are making what is, for the vast majority,  the MOST expensive purchase of their lives and they blithely go ahead without proper advice and counsel.  why on earth do they do it?

you are also right to point out the difference between a survey and a valuation.  i would go one step further - there is also a difference between the usual "homebuyer's report" and a survey carried out by a chartered building surveyor or qualified engineer.  admittedly, the homebuyer's report is better than nothing but it IS only on a pro forma and only those elements of the building on the pro forma are looked at.  it is a somewhat restricted inspection and not on a par with a properly-prepared report with detailed comments on the construction and the site

to be fair, a full structural survey is often impractical as it would mean pulling up fitted carpets, looking behind fitted furniture, digging down to foundations to look at them, etc.  needless to say, it's not easy or even necessary to go that far, bearing in mind the property still at this stage belongs to the vendor!  however, if a suitably experienced and qualified building surveyor is engaged s/he can generally suss out problems by close examination of elements s/he is able to see including walls, roof spaces, method of construction and so on.

i do think that we can all be guilty of taking complete leave of our senses when our emotions are engaged.  and i don't think us brits get more emotional than when house transactions are involved! 

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I must be the one keeping the surveyors in business then because I have always had surveys done in the UK and have always bought 'subject to a full survey' and I am refering to a survey not an evaluation. I have not known anyone who has not had a full survey done either but then things may have changed a lot in the last four years. I was just wondering who says that surveys are not being done, it's not the institute by chance so they can claim poverty [:D] ?
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I've only ever had two full surveys done, one on a house I bought, one on a house I didn't buy as a result of the survey. Unfortunately the surveyor of the house I bought must have been having a bad day, how can a surveyor state, in writing, that a wall is a solid brick wall when even I (subsequently) could actually see into the cavity at the side of a door jamb. It did somewhat destroy my faith in structural surveyors for a while.

As with most of us perhaps, I did not have a survey done for the French house.....why??, when in Rome I suppose!!!!!!

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Of course within the UK a 'survey' which it is not by the lender is only there to protect the lender.

Again if you commission independently a 'full' or 'partial' survey the person carrying out that survey is going very much to make sure that there are quite a lot of 'get out clauses' certainly those commissioned of people who are members of the RCIS.   The reason not many years ago it was ruled by the Court of Appeal Civil Division that there was a direct monetary link (causation) between the report and the people who relied upon it.  If they subsequent and as a result lost money that this loss could be fairly and squarly be laid at the door of those who carried out the report.  Those of you who have had a full structural survey just have a look at those clauses.

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Yes, works of art the get out clauses, which often say that we have only surveyed what we could see. Now experience might tell if a crack is serious or not. But they might just err on the side of caution and lean towards something being potentially more serious just to cover themselves in case it is.

Paul

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If the market has dried up for British buyers, the news does not seem to have filtered through to the locals.

  1. Elderly (by the sound of her) French lady rang up a few weeks ago and said she stayed here last year; she said could I pass details of a house she has to sell in Mieuxcé on to all the English house hunters, please.
  2. Neighbour this week tells me she is putting her 700m2 garden (which is over the road from her house) on the market, and she expects to sell it to les Anglais as a building plot.  French buyers are only her second target market if she fails to find a Brit straight away (Brit=English here, sorry).  Oddly, she did not mention the Dutch, who seem to be kicking around in fair numbers in some parts of the region.

Out of date with their marketing strategy?

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[quote user="Quillan"]I must be the one keeping the surveyors in business then because I have always had surveys done in the UK and have always bought 'subject to a full survey' and I am refering to a survey not an evaluation. I have not known anyone who has not had a full survey done either but then things may have changed a lot in the last four years. I was just wondering who says that surveys are not being done, it's not the institute by chance so they can claim poverty [:D] ?[/quote]

Quillan,I don't think that things have changed since you lived in the UK, I just think that everybody has always talked about "getting a survey done" when they are talking about a valuation. If you are in the minority who has actually meant a survey you may have assumed that everybody else meant the same thing. This BBC article ( from last year)  states that only 1 in 5 buyers has anything other than a valuation done and the rest of the article explains why!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/business/4243143.stm

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