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fosse types


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Sure this question has been asked and answered but can't find it.

Can you please tell me

1. the different types of fosse

2. How to tell them apart when already installed

3. What maintainance, emptying they require

anything else that may help me to assertain the types of fosse I have (there are two on the property) We beleive that we are scheduled to be connected to the mains sewage system sometime  in 2006 and are therfore loathed to spend too much money on systems that may become redundant in the near (or not so near) future.

 

Thanks

 

Phil 

 

 

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hi

      first if you already own the property  just sit tight on the fosse issue unless you a planning  renovation work untill 2006 you can then work out if it it `s cheaper to up grade or to go on mains drainage

                      dave

    

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[quote]hi first if you already own the property just sit tight on the fosse issue unless you a planning renovation work untill 2006 you can then work out if it it `s cheaper to up grade or to go on ...[/quote]

Can you elaborate on the "mains drainage" bit please?

Our house is in a hamlet, is it supposed to be connected by then?

Alcazar

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By law everywhere was supposed to have implemented a modern drainage plan by the end of this year. Being France of course it hasn't happened, after all its only an EU requirement.

Nevertheless slowly, but surely plans are being drawn up, and you only have to travel round rural France to see just how many small villages are digging up the roads and are putting in mains drainage.

However it was never going to be realistic to put in mains drainage to remote hamlets. Each commune should by now have decided what the policy is and designated the areas that will have mains drainage.So off to the Mairie to find out the plans for your commune.

For those outside of the catchment area the  other part of the plan is the inspection of all existing systems to ensure that they comply with the current standards. A notice is then issued to say what needs to be done to comply, and its then up to the householder to comply within .........(?????).

There will also be a new annual charge to finance the ongoing inspection of private systems on a regular basis. Part of this will be a check that the system still complies, is working correctly, is being emptied at regular intervals and that the contents has been disposed of by an approved contractor.

Returning to the original query, if you are in an zone where mains drainage is installed you have 12 months in which to arrange connection to the system.

 

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If anyone can tell me I would still like to know how to tell the difference between the types of fosse which are already installed and what maintainance they require such as emptying

 

phil

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OK then the modern type of fosse septique that everyone is supposed to have for next year is different from the older type in that it is "toutes eaux" ie it takes all the water from inside the house and not just the toilet water.

To tell them apart you really have to look at the pipework from the house to see what is going in.

You will have to get the tanks emptied by a licensed contractor at least every four years. There is other advisable maintenance (do a search there's been loads about it here in the last year) but the fact that you have to get a vidange every four years means that the authorities aren't expecting folk to be all that carefull with their tanks.

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thanks motorhead

I'll have to get my big rubber gloves on then and peer inside to see what pipes go in. Am I right in assuming that if its a "toute aux" that it no longer matters about things like bleach and disinfectant if it all gets pumped out eventuallt anyway.

 

thanks agin

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http://forums.livingfrance.com/shwmessage.aspx?ForumID=288&MessageID=246807&TopicPage=2

and some other stuff I've written that you can do a search on.

The tanks can usually take a bit of bleach etc but it all depends on how well they are working to begin with. It's wise to minimise potentially harmfull substances as much as possible.

The four year max vidanges are to do with public health (or the authorities' perception of it). A tank may well become smelly and generally unpleasant long before it's a health hazard.

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hi

      ok bleach will kill all the " nice bugs" in your fosse stone dead... you can get" javell sans pour fosse septics " in your local "hyper u`s ect" just look on the lable.

           for info a two tank system is a sceptic tank with a sand filter... the first tank  ie the fosse the second tank usually a pit dug into the ground ie the sand filter ...hence two tanks

                   dave

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[quote]Will this two tank system, with sand filter, comform to the new regulations I've heard rumours about, for those who will not be connected to mains drainage in 2006? Linda[/quote]

hi

        it looks like the 2 tank system is going to be the norm in france unless you can get on mains drainage.

       off course there will be exceptions where say you do not have enough land for the filter ect... but at the moment they are very eager to get as many properties converted and legal before the end of the 2005 deadline , so the inspectors are being very " flexable " with the rules at present and will issue you a certificate .... but in 2006 .... when all properties in france should buy then have all been converted " a pipe dream by the government" think they will " put there foot down " a bit .

        all property bought after jan 2006 must pass  inspection within 12 months for drainage.

no pipe systems

reed bed systems are being accepted in more areas .!!! but debateable on where you live 

  oh and ps ..if you think uk thoughts like because i have a fosse i will not be charged for sewerage for get it you are going to have to pay for an inspection charge for your fosse ...donot know how much or how often as yet but will post when i get more info...

            dave

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Thank Dave - that's very useful information. Any idea where I can get some basic ideas of how this 2 tank fosse system should be laid out? E.g. distance from house, size etc etc. Our builder is quoting for a new fosse and I'd like to reassure myself it's going to meet new regs.

Linda

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Linda you really should be talking to your local drainage authority and getting the whole scheme sorted out with them before you even contact a builder about it.

If you get a builder to do all the paperwork you may well end up paying for more than you need eg a vertical sandpit when a cheaper horizontal onE would have been fine.

http://forums.livingfrance.com/shwmessage.aspx?ForumID=285&MessageID=248290

Details my experience with the local DA. It would be a lot simpler for someone who is not as awkward as me.

Before the fosse is covered over the DA have to come out and inspect it to see if it conforms to the regs DTU64.1. If it conforms then a certificate of conformity will be issued. No cert and it's no payment for the builder but legally you must get him to state on the devis that it is to conform to DTU64.1.

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This may not directly answer the questions but it's from personal experience in the last six months.

We live in a small commune in the Charente Maritime (17) about 12 miles east of St Jean d'Angely.  During the ground works for a new in-ground pool earlier this year it was discovered that our fosse was not to the correct current standard as only bath, handbasin and toilet water went through the fosse.  Sink, dishwasher and washing machine water all went - we thought through the fosse but it actually went out into the garden through a long black pipe (15m) with slits layed in sand (1m deep) and it was clear to see that it had not worked properly for years!  There were two additional problems - the soil is very chalky/stoney and therefore drainage might have been an issue and because of the pool location the fosse would require moving!!

The French guy in charge of the groundworks told us about all the new fosse regulations (there is no sign of us going on mains drainage for years) and suggested we call in the Syndicat des Eaux from Saintes - who duly came and inspected our site and after approx. four weeks came back with their recommendations in order to make our fosse "legal".  This entailed moving the fosse (as we expected), connecting and ensuring ALL the waste water went through the fosse and (wait for it) the construction of a filter bed - 5m x 5m x 1.5m which had to be built in strict accordance with the specs issued by the SdE. This bed is a network of pipes layed on various levels of sand, ballast, scalpings and more sand and acts as the filter from the fosse.  We also had to have a "stink pipe" installed - which goes from the fosse up the side of the house to approx. 1m above roof level with a static extractor.  There are two manhole covers - one is actually where you can see all the waste water entering and the other reveals a chamber with a basket of what looks like moon rock and this is what they call "Le bac decanter-degraisseur".  Once finished and EURO5000 later the SdE returned to inspect the work/installation and provided a full report - we passed but there are a number of points that we had to ensure were complied with as follows:

The fossse must be emptied at least every 4 years, the degraisseur must be cleaned every 6 months, the 2 inspection covers must be at ground level and exposed, the "moon rock" was insuffiecient and we had to add a quantity and nothing is to be planted over or close to the filter bed (roots are a problem).  There were a number of other points that had to be complied with but our groundworks man took care of these.

We now have a fully compliant 3000L fosse - no smells and one we presume is happily being filtered.

PeterCD

 

 

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I believe there is a type of fosse that is not really a fosse but a “holding tank”. Needs emptying frequently as all the household water(s) go into it. However, no bacterial issues, etc. and no drainage issues. If anybody has info on these I would be interested – mainly because I have a river running through the house and the water table level will be a problem with my existing non-compliant fosse. Upstream watermill had to have a micro-station installed which I am not keen on.

Ian

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That's a fosse etanche Deimos aka a cesspit.

It depends on your local drainage authority (SPANC, SATESE, BDQE, SDE or whatever) but you should still be able to get one but only in exceptional circumstances. Also if you are having to get it emptied every month or two it's going to be very expensive.

Dunno exactly why you are not keen on a micro-station. There is more to go wrong with them but they are getting better and cheaper all the time. A new one shouldn't really give you any trouble unless you have a fairly lengthy power cut.

A few comments on Peter's situation:

It's a vertical filter that's described and the DA will probably propose this first. However you can (well I did anyway) beat them down to to a horizontal one which is only half as deep and has a lot less pipework therefore a good bit cheaper.

The "moon rock" is called pouzolane and is a type of zeolite which acts as a final solids strainer and also as a passive ammonia adsorber ( you can get it to work as an active adsorber but it's complicated). The pouzolane does not last for ever. You have to take it out and wash it periodically or it "silts up" also once it gets saturated with ammonia it will not adsorb any more so you have to either change it or "recharge" it by soaking in a brine solution. BTW Brico Depot is by far the cheapest source of pouzolane, 40% less than Bonhommes.

Peter said "and nothing is to be planted over or close to the filter bed (roots are a problem).". This worries me a tad and I hope it aint littoral. Plant roots can clog up the filter pipes (this is more of a problem with vertical filters as there is more pipework nearer the surface) but there should be a geotextile membrane between the filter and the topsoil to act as a root barrier. However it’s better to plant grass (or even better, lay turf) over the filter bed. A nice thick turf will do wonders for keeping out deep rooting weeds.

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Quote [Motorhead]: “Dunno exactly why you are not keen on a micro-station. There is more to go wrong with them but they are getting better and cheaper all the time. A new one shouldn't really give you any trouble unless you have a fairly lengthy power cut.”

In my case there is the possibility of the fosse and pretty well anything else being underwater at certain times of year. An architect has suggested this may be a problem for the authorities. My main anti on Microstations is the cost (although I guess they have the advantage that they can be under water for periods of time al long as they have a breather pipe somewhere. Power seems pretty reliable (over the last few years anyway). Anybody and finger in the air for a microstation for a 5 or 6 person house ?

I have been told that to build an above ground filter bed/fosse system would be expensive (lot of materials needed to be brought in plus a pump to raise the waste into the raised fosse.

If I am wrong about this then please do correct me (as I have found it always helps if you know a bit about the subject when dealing with officials).

Many thanks

Ian
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http://portstephens.local-e.nsw.gov.au/environment/44034/44037.html

gives a good drawing of a mound filter system. I really can't see this being any cheaper than an MWWTP and there is an awfull lot that can go wrong with mounds.

As I've said MWWTP's are getting better and cheaper all the time and the longer you can hold out the better it will be. However, don't believe all the hype and do your own research. There is a lot of drivel said about them by the salesmen. My favourite is "they work just like a miniature sewage treatment plant" really, there'd have to be such a thing as a typical sewer works to be able to say that. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Deimos raises the issue of having a river or stream running close to septice tank site,we also have a problem in as much as we have 2 streams running around our millhouse and at no point can a tank be 35m from them.Is the sealed tank system the only solution to this problem ??

Thanks,Jim.

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[quote]Deimos raises the issue of having a river or stream running close to septice tank site,we also have a problem in as much as we have 2 streams running around our millhouse and at no point can a tank be...[/quote]

My existing fosse is only 15m from the mill stream (at it is possible for the fosse to be under water on (one) occasion). I have been told that the “microstation” can operate under water for periods (i.e. not permanently) as long as its “breather tube” is above the water level. It is the cost of these that was worrying me (a little as I was aware I would need to do something when I purchased the mill).

I play to do as Motorhead suggested – wait until told to do something by the Marie (by which time hopefully prices will have dropped, etc. I know the mill upstream had to have a microstation put in.

However, I cannot see anybody objecting to a septic tank (holding tank) as it releases nothing to the environment. I guess it should be cheap to install (just a tank), its just the running costs that I have no idea about.

Ian

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hi

        if you are thinking about just putting in a holding tank!!!!

think about first the cost of having it emptied??

ok say a 3000ltr tank cheap to buy say €500 cost to install ??? depends on the ground say top of the head quote €1000 ...sounds good ...no.....

the average person uses 45ltrs of water a day so say 6 in the house 6x45=270ltrs that tanker is going to be a weekly bill.

 hope this helps

                  dave

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