Siret number = insured??

[AnnH]

French laws are very specific on estate agencies, to be an estate agent you have to have a contract with a French estate agency and in addition to your siret number you will also have a Carte Professional number issued by your employer.  If any one sells property in France without a Carte Professional number then they are selling illegally.  Englsih registered companies selling from England should not actually meet you in France unless they also have a French registration.  From this year the laws are tightening even further so beware.

[Bobc]

"French laws are very specific on estate agencies, to be an estate

agent you have to have a contract with a French estate agency and in

addition to your siret number you will also have a Carte Professional

number issued by your employer.  If any one sells property in

France without a Carte Professional number then they are selling

illegally.  Englsih registered companies selling from England

should not actually meet you in France unless they also have a French

registration.  From this year the laws are tightening even further

so beware."

Slightly misleading.

To be an estate agent you would certainly need to have a Siret number

and also a Carte Professionale issued by the local Prefecture.

To work for a registered French estate agent as an agent commerciale

you would also need a Siret number, together with a Carte Grise which

is issued by the Prefecture.

Depending on the arrangement that you have with the French estate agent, you may well also need to be registered for TVA.

Regards,

Bob Clarke

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/grindoux

[Quillan]

"To work for a registered French estate agent as an agent commerciale you would also need a Siret number, together with a Carte Grise which is issued by the Prefecture."

Is not a Carte Grise the registration document for a car so why would you need one?

[Will]

It's also a carte, and also grise, but proper agents comerciaux working for estate agents have to carry a different sort of carte grise for themselves (as well as the one for the vehicle of course). Incidentally, talking of agents and vehicles, if you are checking on an agent's paperwork, ask them about passenger liability insurance for their vehicles if they offer to carry you around. Proper agents have such cover, virtually the same extent as a taxi, and which costs a fortune. With others you take your own chance (not a good idea with the way some of them drive).

A salaried sales negotiator, employed by an estate agency, which is what the French law seems to favour, does not of course need his/her own Siret number (though the agency for which they work should of course be properly registered).

The whole concept of being an agent commercial in estate agency is still a grey area following a court ruling that this business was not compatible with agent commercial status, and people doing this job would have to become salaried employees of the agency. There have been ways found to get round the problem, but this is just one aspect of Frencxh bureaucracy that is definitely not the same throughout the country.

[Ernie]

Orion wrote:

Every single artisan in the building trades here if he trades as a business MUST provide adequate insurance Deçennale and Civile. Having a SIRET number means nothing at all where insurances are concer... Hi Val2 can you substantiate this please above and beyond being asked for your AD on one occasion by a gendarme? same question but still waiting for an answer for anyone who this might concern. same question and still waiting for an answer Orion

Val 2 is perfectly correct. It doesn't need to be sustantiated, it is simply the law in France.

 

[Quillan]

I have not been able to post this before because of a court case which has now completed.

I have received some information regarding this company from a forum member who has employed this company in the past and has ended in dispute with them.

It would seem that the company did de-register from between 3^rd January 2006 , re-registering on the 10^th April 2006, why they should do this I do not know.

They were taken to court in France (Avallon) on 20th April 2006 although they paid JUST prior to the case being heard. The court heard the case and it was re entered for 18th May just to make sure that the cheque cleared. The second hearing has now taken place and the matter settled with full payment including legal fees and damages paid by the company. The person who made this claim is a member of the forum. Should you wish further details please contact me by PM with your question and I will pass it on.

I am told by the same forum member that the company is now trading as Burgundy Solutions. You can draw your own conclusion from the above, I don't think I personally would be offering them any work. 

[Ernie]

How interesting. And I've heard of an incredibly reputable builder who behaved in the following way: 1. Drew up a spec. along the lines of a Brit builder and sent an estimate. We accepted this, not knowing at the time of the French system of a devis plus attestation. However, I did ask the builder if he gave guarantees with his work. He emailed back to say all his men were insured so it wasn't a problem. This reassured us and we let the matter drop. 2. Work went well for a few months and then ground to a halt. 3. When we made a visit around the time it was predicted (by him) to finish, it was clear that several major jobs hadn't been done and some major jobs had been done badly. 4. A few months later we discovered the whole routine of the  'devis' plus attestation of insurance that you should ask for. It turned out that he hadn't been covered by insurance and by now it was becoming clear that he was sending any old tosher and unskilled geezer up to do work like plumbing, painting, tiling, fitting stoves, rooves etc. 5. Eventually he took out some insurance saying that he had let it 'lapse'...i won't go on...

 

Yes, you can come across a builder who has a Siret number, who, if you met him in a bar, he would get all shocked and self-righteous about Brit builders working without insurance, offer advice here, there and everywhere about how to build this, how to repair that. And let's say, he might even have a website where he would sound just as worthy. And like us, you might believe him. And like us, you would have been had.

[Ernie]

Forgot to say that every person hiring a builder should not only ask for the devis and the attestation of insurance but should also take out 'dommage et ouvrage' insurance for themselves. Only then, will you be able to deal with 'malfacons' ie bad workmanship, as the job is going along - assuming of course that your builder, like ours, won't rectify something like plumbing that leaks. The attestation will not cover you for this sort of thing.