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conned by electrician


f.rance
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Can someone help me.... I was decorating after having my house renovated completely and had a freak accident that left a hole in the plasterboard wall....( dont ask!!!)  When I looked in the hole I saw what the french call a domino ( electrical connection ) hidden in the wall. It was under a wall light. after some purpose built holes I have found hidden dominoes under every light, all hidden in the wall. I thought these were suppose to be accessable. Where do I stand legally? What can I do about this? Do I need to inform the authorities? I just want it done properly

Help please with suggestions.

Thank you

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When were the electrics done?

You are quite right, the method used is not allowed (I don't think that you could call it "illegal").

First thing is to contact the Electrician. Tell him to put it right & ask for a copy of his insurance, in case he doesn't. Thereafter, you best bet is to talk to the Chambre de Metiers with whom he is registered (from his SIRET number).

Or, after having done the above, you could get another Electrician to do the work, then sue the original one for the cost.

Perhaps you should have another ELectrician look at the entire installation anyway, just to be sure....

 

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The use of 'dominos' rather than the UK junction box is quite standard, however, the dominoes should be inside a 'boite de derivation' (excuse lack of required accents) with a surface-flush blanking plate cover to allow access, the gaine (conduit) should be properly terminated at the box.The only reason gaine could be avoided would be if cable (say) U 1000 R 2V was used and the run was in a hollow wall (ie pull outable), a box would still be required with access plate.

Thats only my interpretation of the rules and I am quite happy to be put right by someone who knows better.

Regards

ref : L'installation electrique, Gallauziaux and Fedullo

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[quote user="f.rance"]The work was done just 18 months ago... does this make any difference?
[/quote]

Not really. In theory you can claim on his decinal insurance - assuming he has any and assuming that they will pay out on bad workmanship (which is unlikely).

Again, speak to him first, then, if you get nowhere with him, get an independant assesment of the wiring (probably cost you a couple of hunded €) - use a qualifies Electrician or a Hussier de Justice and take it further.

Where are you? Drop me a PM with some details - I may be able to help.

BTW, Steve is quite right in his analysis of the work. I wouldn't agree with his use of cable rigide inside partition walls, though. Not that that is of any relevance to your problem.

 

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[quote user="powerdesal"]The use of 'dominos' rather than the UK junction box is quite standard, however, the dominoes should be inside a 'boite de derivation' (excuse lack of required accents) with a surface-flush blanking plate cover to allow access, the gaine (conduit) should be properly terminated at the box.The only reason gaine could be avoided would be if cable (say) U 1000 R 2V was used and the run was in a hollow wall (ie pull outable), a box would still be required with access plate.

Thats only my interpretation of the rules and I am quite happy to be put right by someone who knows better.

Regards

ref : L'installation electrique, Gallauziaux and Fedullo

[/quote]

You're quite right. All connections should be accessable via a boite de derivation or any other proper terminating device like a switch, socket or light fitting.  Under no circumstances are terminations or joints to be hidden.

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Hello...I am new here but have been in france for 12 years now... My neighbours had the same thing happen to them just 2 years ago.. the electrician got caught burying dominoes behind plasterboard walls... He reported the electrician to the consuel and they took him to court to get him to fix everything which was then examined thouroughly. The consuel also fined him E6500 for incompetence and he very nearly got struck off the electricians register....  apparently these days with all the new rules around the consuel are even tougher.

Hope this helps someone

all the best

Rob

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The rules to the best of my knowledge and belief are that you should able to replace <<Cable Rigid>> without disturbuing/wrecking the decoration.

If the <<electricien>> has left 70 year old cotton and rubber insulated wiring behind new facades and simply attached new sockets and switches then you have a serious proiblem.

If he or she has used <<dominoes>> to attach cable flexiable from the light fitting to new cable rigid in the mains supply  then how else you expect them to do it.

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My builder/electrician lengthened the cable between the electric rads and the socket by joining cables together (I think, he just wound wires round each other) and wrapping insulation tape round them. Any views on that?
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OK, if it's 'interdit' and, (yes, I guessed as much), I want explanations please as to why my unbelievably reputable English builder, long established in France, a man of superb credentials, sagacity and good counsel to all who sit at his feet, a man with stern words for the mountebank, fraudster and cheapskate, a chef d'entreprise with a website to die for, should have  allowed his electrician to fit at least four rads with these duff connections (their leads trail on the kitchen floor) and perhaps did the same with four others (whose leads don't trail on the floor and are tucked up inside). Let your minds run wild, set your imaginations free and speculate about this great representative of English building skills abroad. (Hush, perhaps a fairy or small bird will pass on your thoughts to him...might he not perhaps find himself drawn to your words and read them himself?)
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Ernie,

If your builder is such a paragon of virtue and repute why is he employing an Electrician with 'cowboy tendencies'? Perhaps your builder knows absolutely nothing about electrical work and has taken the word of his resident electrical 'expert'. Or, as a worst case scenario, your builders reputation is built on sand and he is actually a re-cycled used car salesman who can really talk a high class job.

In any case, if he is the 'Boss" then he is liable, the work is unacceptable and should be redone, to normes/codes, at the builders expense.(IMHO)

Regards

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[quote user="Ernie"] I want explanations please as to why my unbelievably reputable English builder, long established in France, a man of superb credentials, sagacity and good counsel to all who sit at his feet, a man with stern words for the mountebank, fraudster and cheapskate, a chef d'entreprise with a website to die for[/quote]

Things like this always remind me of an episode of Yes Prime Minister. The newly appointed Prime Minister, Jim Hacker says to his permanent secretary, Sir Humphrey 'you have always answered my questions' to which the wily Sir Humphrey replies 'I am glad you think so'.

Or in other words, our conceptions are not always reality but for the individual they will be because that is what they believe.

Perhaps Ernie needs to examine why he has this high regard for his builder and if it is misplaced.

Paul  

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Have I talked to him?! I've tried pointing them out, I've tried asking him to do something about it, I've tried pricing the job as incomplete so that he doesn't get the full whack, I've tried pointing out that other things that he's done around the site are illegal, unfinished, dangerous, badly done, I've done face-to-face, I've done emails, I've done snailmail, I've hired in a surveyor to write a report, I've used the services of my father-in-law who is a quantity surveyor of some forty years experience. I've alerted him to the fact that he didn't have insurance. He went on got insurance. Who of course inform me that they can't do anything as it's 'malfacons'. For that I would have needed to have taken out 'ouvrage et dommage' insurance. Punters take note.  You must, must, must do this. We didn't.

 

So thanks for your concern, Catalpa.

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Call me Mr Lucky, but I've never had any problems with my local builder/plumber/electrician.

After we moved in last May, he designed and fitted out an excellent new bathroom for us.  He even worked the job around his August holidays, so we'd at least have a shower to use whilst he was away.  Then in the autumn, he fitted a new central heating boiler for us without any problems.  The other week, our old chauffe-eau conked out, so I rang him and he was round within 24 hours with a team of men. He only uses top quality Legrand kit for the electrical work and he shows me everything he's done.

Each time, his devis has been reasonable priced - for the first one, I checked the prices on the manufacturer websites and they were exact to the centime, so big trust was established straight away.  Each job was started and completed exactly on time, everything was cleaned up and wiped down after each day's work.  They arrived at 8.00 each day and finished at 6.00.  I had to force them to take a minute off to have a cold drink - none of the usual "Put the kettle on, Missus....".

He is Hubert Rabin of 79140 Combrand.  Oh.....and he's French.

 

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Just heard of another electrician who is under investigation... he has also been caught burying dominoes in walls and running diagonal conduits in the wall.... Once again the consuel is involved and he is being sued to correct the work and no doubt is looking foward to a hefty fine of some sort...

Where are the good guys these days... it seems that the bad guys are getting all the work and really making a name for themselves... why?...whats the point?

If you are getting paid to do it...why not do it well...?

rob ( glad to not be in the building trade )

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[quote user="active8"]Just heard of another electrician who is under investigation... he has also been caught burying dominoes in walls and running diagonal conduits in the wall.... Once again the consuel is involved and he is being sued to correct the work and no doubt is looking foward to a hefty fine of some sort...

Where are the good guys these days... it seems that the bad guys are getting all the work and really making a name for themselves... why?...whats the point?

If you are getting paid to do it...why not do it well...?

rob ( glad to not be in the building trade )

[/quote]

From what I've read in this thread. It seems that some people who call themselves electricians probably know very little of what is required knowledge. They haven't read up on the French Norms and don't know that they exist.

Wiring up a house and making it electrically safe IS only a job for those who know the regulations and understand the dangers..

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