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PER fittings - special tool


expat paul
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Hi,

Does anyone know if its possible to hire/rent the special tool needed to permanely fix connectors on to PER pipe. I only have 2 connectors to fit, so its rather expensive to buy just for that. Its to make the connection in the wall behind a shower mixer tap, so they will be buried and tiled over. I have been advised that the compression / screw type fittings should not be buried, but the 'crimp' type (not sure if its the best decription)  can be, is this true ?

Or, does a kind soul have one that they are willing to lend me, I will pay all postage and return the same day.

thanks

Paul

nr Chartres dept 28.

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Paul

our local dpt (46 Cahors) Bricomarche hires this very tool out per day/ half day. I know it is not local to you but you could ask in the Bricos there. If they sell the fittings it is possible they hire the tool as there are lots of others like you and me who need the tool for a very short time. Mine charged me 18€ as I had the tool back within an hour.

good luck.

Danny

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[quote user="expat paul"]

Hi,

Does anyone know if its possible to hire/rent the special tool needed to permanely fix connectors on to PER pipe. I only have 2 connectors to fit, so its rather expensive to buy just for that. Its to make the connection in the wall behind a shower mixer tap, so they will be buried and tiled over. I have been advised that the compression / screw type fittings should not be buried, but the 'crimp' type (not sure if its the best decription)  can be, is this true ?

Or, does a kind soul have one that they are willing to lend me, I will pay all postage and return the same day.

thanks

Paul

nr Chartres dept 28.

[/quote]

This is not in answer to your question. But do you have any pictures of PER fittings as I may have a use for them.

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Thanks but its seems that PER is not a stock item in my region, apart from 'Depot' compression type, even the local builders merchants state its a special item and I should seek a specialist. One, however when pressed, did give me a name of a possible stockist, so fingers crossed !
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I can't see any particular reason why a compression-type couldn't be encastred.... after all, it's only a modern version of the brass compression fittings which have been buried behind French bathroom walls for centuries. The big thing to allow for is the expansion of the PER piping (the hot, obviously) it MUST be in sleeves, and if you can arrange for an expansion space at the bottom of the wall (within the wall cavity for example) then you won't have any cracking problems.

However if you're wedded to the idea of the crimps then I've a box of 'T's and elbows going begging. - I couldn't source a borrow or hire of the crimping tool and eventually gave up and switched to compressions.

p

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On the subject of plastic pipes. I came across plastic pipes and fittings called Easytub. I have used them now for hot and cold water,central heating etc. and they are first class. They cut and glue together in the same way as plastic waste pipes but use a special solvent glue. They are so easy to use and no more expensive than using PER. they advertise as the only pipes officially authorised to be buried in the wall or behind stud work.What is more they look reasonable, so if you have to leave them on show they look OK

Anybody else used them ?, I got them from Leroy Merlin, so far the only place where I have seen them.

Regards

John

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[quote user="Gyn_Paul"]I can't see any particular reason why a compression-type couldn't be encastred.... after all, it's only a modern version of the brass compression fittings which have been buried behind French bathroom walls for centuries. The big thing to allow for is the expansion of the PER piping (the hot, obviously) it MUST be in sleeves, and if you can arrange for an expansion space at the bottom of the wall (within the wall cavity for example) then you won't have any cracking problems.

However if you're wedded to the idea of the crimps then I've a box of 'T's and elbows going begging. - I couldn't source a borrow or hire of the crimping tool and eventually gave up and switched to compressions.

p
[/quote]

Hi,

I didn't think it would be a problem either.

 I've used compression for all my other connections ie manifolds, sink supplies etc, it just the hot and cold to the shower mixer tap I've left to finish. Had I not spoken to a mate in UK, asking advice on another subject, I would have finished in blissfull ignorance using compression but for his warning about buried compression and using crimp.

Have you had any leaks from any compression fitting ? Is it just the expansion that causes problems ?

Paul

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[quote user="expat paul"]

[quote user="Gyn_Paul"]I can't see any particular reason why a compression-type couldn't be encastred.... after all, it's only a modern version of the brass compression fittings which have been buried behind French bathroom walls for centuries. The big thing to allow for is the expansion of the PER piping (the hot, obviously) it MUST be in sleeves, and if you can arrange for an expansion space at the bottom of the wall (within the wall cavity for example) then you won't have any cracking problems.

However if you're wedded to the idea of the crimps then I've a box of 'T's and elbows going begging. - I couldn't source a borrow or hire of the crimping tool and eventually gave up and switched to compressions.

p

[/quote]

Hi,

I didn't think it would be a problem either.

 I've used compression for all my other connections ie manifolds, sink supplies etc, it just the hot and cold to the shower mixer tap I've left to finish. Had I not spoken to a mate in UK, asking advice on another subject, I would have finished in blissfull ignorance using compression but for his warning about buried compression and using crimp.

Have you had any leaks from any compression fitting ? Is it just the expansion that causes problems ?

Paul

[/quote]

Yes I have. In exactly this situation (encastred bath taps rather than shower but the effect was just the same). The real problem arises with some shower or bath mixers which have either an extension piece or an offset piece. the effect of which is that the fitting on the pipe in the wall, and the capture nut on the mixer are screwing onto this offset or extension piece in opposite directions thus the effort to tighten the shower fitting, is tending to loosen the pipe fitting. If it is something you are really worried about then the bricos sell a brilliant (if rather pricy) piece of braized copper tubing comprising 2 lengths of 14mm (I think) tube with braized elbows top and bottom and a couple of brass straps to hold it rigid, which you bury directly in the wall, the top 2 are set the correct distance apart for the standard shower fitting, and you attach the feeds at the bottom. At least with this you can be assured the shower connections are good and tight.

In essence, the pipe to the captured nut isn't the bit to worry about - crimp or compression - it's the nut to brassware.

I have any number of baths and showers to plumb in yet and I shall be using the compression PER fittings on all of them if approprate.

If it were me, I'd also be worrying that there's probably a knack to using the crimping tool, and I shouldn't want the first and only pair I crimped to be buried in the plaster, but that's just me !

good luck

(the other) Paul

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Thanks (the other) Paul,

One further question, I have just returned from my local Brico depot and they now have 2 types of compression fitting for PER, just to confuse me [8-)]

The first has an insert + an olive and a nut, the second has the same but it appears the insert is fitted with an allen key, ie screw-in ?

From your / anybodies experience any thoughts on the best one to use.

thanks

Paul

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In common with evething connected with French plumbing they keep adding options to confuse the British.

My preference is for the screw in with the Alllen key or special 'T' wrench : 1. You can taken them apart when you cut a pipe two long. 2. You do not need thumbs of a mountain gorrilla or the 6 million dollar man to push them on. 3 you can dis assemble them completely without using a gas ring to heat them up so they come of the plastic.

Just to complete the picture. There is a third option which consists of a core fitting which takes inner and outer threaded inserts which is actually my favourite as you are not reliant on the quality of standard French 'T' pieces etc.  

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[quote user="Anton Redman"]

In common with evething connected with French plumbing they keep adding options to confuse the British.

My preference is for the screw in with the Alllen key or special 'T' wrench : 1. You can taken them apart when you cut a pipe two long. 2. You do not need thumbs of a mountain gorrilla or the 6 million dollar man to push them on. 3 you can dis assemble them completely without using a gas ring to heat them up so they come of the plastic.

Just to complete the picture. There is a third option which consists of a core fitting which takes inner and outer threaded inserts which is actually my favourite as you are not reliant on the quality of standard French 'T' pieces etc.  

[/quote]

As ever Anton is right; trying to hammer a serrated core into a 16mm pipe whilst holding it between you knees is something you only do once (I find myself saying [again] "I was put on this earth for better things than this !"). The Allan key version are the ones to go with.

paul

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