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Tradesmen sought


Chief
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Hi.

 

I am in the early stages of the ‘Moving to France’ Process.  I envisage buying a property that is likely to need renovations to both main structure and outbuilding as required.  I am unsure at this stage, which region (Dept) I will be in.  In preparation however, I am compiling a list of Artisans from various trades (those associated with house renovations) plumbing, fosse septic, attic conversions, the whole shebang.  As a starting point intend visiting websites, looking at photos of work completed, reading testimonials, and eventually site visiting while on the house-hunting trail.  If you are in the renovations business and don’t mind sending me your details, please email the contact details request below to  [email protected]   All responses acknowledged, and hopefully, I will get to visit most of you.  Thanks  Dave

 

Business name

Dept

Address

Contact Name

Trade

Web Address

Email

Tel No.

Mobile No:

Siret:

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Good morning Dave I can see you are nothing less than thorough. However you may and will be in for a huge culture shock when you come here and whilst it is a very good idea to do the research and for which you should be commended perhaps an approach and which is based upon the more defined area would be a better way forward?

For example here in Manche and near to Villedieu if say you bought a barn that needed new walls the macons are quoting 18 months before they go on site.  As for electricians and due to new build veau units our two electricians say to us next March.

So the position may change and will depend upon where you ultimately decide to rest your head. 

Let us say you are inundated with details of tradesmen and on the basis that you have outlined both for Notaires and Tradesmen.  You get to an area that you think has a good Notaire and then good Tradesmen but what happens if you cannot find a house that either you or your partner like? and indeed you do not like the area?

This is a very helpful forum and once you decide where you will receive lots of help and advice.

 

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I have just deleted the helpful stuff I wrote because I could not understand how you had posted 42 posts on here but was still in the very vague, "I am thinking of moving to France" stage then I found this by doing a search.  

"The project is a small part a portfolio of management work that i will be undertaking and submitting as part of an MBA.  The submitted project will be specific to myself"

Well if you are doing an MBA in the UK matey, a sizeable cost if your firm is not paying for it,  I think you have no intention of moving to France and you are just getting your coursework done by the good people on here.  Well not now this one anyway[:@]. 

 

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Advice?

Find a place that has been totally restored and perhaps simply now needs minor cosmetics to place your own stamp.

Have it professionally surveyed.

It will be cheaper, far less stressful and enable you to enjoy your time in France from day one.

People always underestimate the costs involved in renovation and the time it all takes.

Whilst many sellers will have, shall we say, a hugely optimistic concept of their finished value, find someone who really wants/needs to sell, rather than a dreamer.

 

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We are going through this process at the moment and we will be starting some work next week. Zeb's recommendation is a very good one. I too would recommend finding someone local that will come recommended.

One point, at least around here anyway (Dordogne) things look as if they are changing. Believe it or not we have had our house for two years and we are just starting the renovation work because of one thing or the other (the house is habitable). What some have said about waiting for artisans were true but I am finding now, perhaps because of the slow down in the market, things have changed.  The slow down started happening two years ago and the artisans had a pipeline of work that is just now starting to slow down. I have found that there are now beginning to be more and more artisans needing and wanting work. I feel that it will just be a matter of time before this spreads to other parts of France if it hasn't already.

Best of luck.

Edit: Perhaps Gluesticks' advice is even better. [:)]

 

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[quote user="Ron Avery"]

I have just deleted the helpful stuff I wrote because I could not understand how you had posted 42 posts on here but was still in the very vague, "I am thinking of moving to France" stage then I found this by doing a search.  

"The project is a small part a portfolio of management work that i will be undertaking and submitting as part of an MBA.  The submitted project will be specific to myself"

Well if you are doing an MBA in the UK matey, a sizeable cost if your firm is not paying for it,  I think you have no intention of moving to France and you are just getting your coursework done by the good people on here.  Well not now this one anyway[:@]. 

[/quote]

Hi Ron.

Afraid your way off the mark with your vitriol.  The MBA is self financed and comes about as a result of me setting back my immediate plans for a french move, having realised that, in wanting to move to france and also develop a business, i was woefully unprepared.  the MBA seemed like an excellent way to marry to two items together, and allow me to develop a realistic and well thought out schedule for my eventual move, something to which a lot of posts here allude to on a regular basis.  There is nothing here on the site that i cannot find and have not already found in the numerous books and other outlets i have researched.  What is here, is a lot of practical experience, which is a far better substitute than most theoretical grounding, which has its purposes but is not the compete picture. The request on this post is of a similar ilk and has nothing to do with teh MBA.  My thoughts are that when i decide where i am to be based, a simply spreadsheet search on say departments will yield a list of Notaires known to members, who have proved to be worth their salt.  Seems like an infinitely better way to go about it that taking a chance and crossing my fingers.

Perhaps before youi make any further accusations, it might be prudent to post a question for clarification.  It seems pretty sad that such cynicism arises so readily without the need to substantiate ones feelings, but hey...thats the british way.....

Adios (cheers for the spelling dick :-)

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It does seem very strange to me that someone wants a list of artisans and another of tradesmen across the whole of France (a very big place) when they do not even know what region they were thinking of moving to.

Unless of course the business they want to develop depends on the information contained in those lists!!

I am with you Ron Avery

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Most decent artisans have more than enough work.  Start the "I want to see your other work" attitude with them and say goodbye to ever seeing them again.  My experience of artisans is to be as friendly as possible.  Don't start the "and I'm going to get competitive quotes" attitude with then (just do it quietly).  Don't mess them around as there are plenty of others who will just "be easier".  If you get on well, etc. you stand some chance of seeing them in a year of more.


And you are asking for artisans without even knowing where you are going to be moving to !!  Most artisans will work fairly locally.  Why would they want to spend ages driving around France each day when there is plenty of work in the local areas.
None of my local artisans have "web addresses" nor "e-mail addresses".
Must confess, either you have a lot to learn about France for your aims are not as stated.
Ian

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I'll give you the benefit of the doubt as to your reasons for wanting a list at this stage Dave, but as someone else said - you're in for a HUGE culture shock.

There is absolutely NO POINT in trying to collate a nationwide list of artisans.  They are extremely busy people and won't be interested unless they know there is a realistic chance of you having work for them.  Some Brits may be prepared to travel within a departement to do work for you but our experience has been that the excellent French artisans that we have had the good fortune to find are not prepared to travel more than about 20KM so on that basis you really do need to find your house first.  Again, as Deimos says, Brits may have emails and websites but I know of no French guy with one. 

You will not be able to get quotes until you have got your house and you will find that the clock doesn't start ticking until you have signed and returned the devis, ie you can't queue jump by having the information up front - you will still have to wait at least a year for a decent guy - and to our cost we know that it is most certainly worth waiting for him.  We once used a Brit with a siret number, email, website - the job was a shambles and he still ended up in prison for the way he conducted his business - so personal recommendation and examples of work is still the best and safest way to go.

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Dave, I am not meaning to be unhelpful...I am the wife of a tradesman.  We do not have a website,  my husband sources work mainly through 'word of mouth'..  He has photos of previous work, and written recommendations,  which he takes to meetings arranged with people who have specific work in mind, and together they discuss time frames materials etc...he will then go away and work out a devis, pass it on to them, if they are happy, things will go ahead as previously arranged. 

He has to book work in advance, and try to predict weather or any problems with planning permissions or 'unforseens', which could delay a job, and then in turn delay other jobs.  I am sure he would be happy for me to pass on his details to you, but, I know he would be unwilling to discuss at any length a hyperthetical job, as he does all his meetings with clients in the evenings or weekends....and I consider that family time (and of course I have a list as long as your arm of jobs for him to do in his 'spare time'!!) Also, I know,  you can appreciate France is a huge country, so I agree with previous posts...decide on an area, then start chasing quotes and recommendations for tradesmen.  If it is prices you are after, I am sure there is enough information on this forum alone to go by. 

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[quote user="St Amour"]

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt as to your reasons for wanting a list at this stage Dave, but as someone else said - you're in for a HUGE culture shock.

There is absolutely NO POINT in trying to collate a nationwide list of artisans.  They are extremely busy people and won't be interested unless they know there is a realistic chance of you having work for them.  Some Brits may be prepared to travel within a departement to do work for you but our experience has been that the excellent French artisans that we have had the good fortune to find are not prepared to travel more than about 20KM so on that basis you really do need to find your house first.  Again, as Deimos says, Brits may have emails and websites but I know of no French guy with one. 

You will not be able to get quotes until you have got your house and you will find that the clock doesn't start ticking until you have signed and returned the devis, ie you can't queue jump by having the information up front - you will still have to wait at least a year for a decent guy - and to our cost we know that it is most certainly worth waiting for him.  We once used a Brit with a siret number, email, website - the job was a shambles and he still ended up in prison for the way he conducted his business - so personal recommendation and examples of work is still the best and safest way to go.

[/quote]

 

The lsit is for information purposes to allow a faster search of appropriate artisans once, as you say, i have a property and am aware of my actual needs.  I see it as pre-planning to reduce workload later when i am going to be snowed under.  This might prevent me jumping at what seems like a good thing, when in fact it is not.

 

cheers

 

dave

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OK.

What I would probably do is to select an area basis, climate, environment, facilities and so on and thereafter visit and scope out the potentials of places needing renovation against those which are already completed.

Possibly, the most critical aspect here, is to leave the UK mindset at home! Property in the UK is totally different. People can buy a spec job, dump a fortune into it and think they ae developers, whereas what happened is that the market shot upwards and despite their mad spending, they still make a profit!

Not the same, here.

If you do consider a renovation, add a far higher contingency figure than normal: and project a far longer project lifecycle than you would expect.

 

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Chief,

 

I think I'm with Ron Avery on this one - I thought I was bit obsessive with forward planning but this is just surreal. Chief, you are so much barking up the wrong tree, in the wrong forest and in the wrong country.

We've had our maison secondaire for over two years now. I had visions of getting 3 quotes for jobs, knocking down prices and so on. Two years wiser I'm finding even artisans recommended personally need 3 or 4 chases simply to turn up and visit. Don't tell anyone, but now I don't bother getting 3 quotes - one on its own is so damned hard to get. In one case of a plumber he eventually gave a devis but when I wanted a couple of small alterations he was too busy to even find the time to respond. Result: Devis timed-out and now he's not interested at all. I've paid 30% up front to a properly registered brit electrican but 4 months on I often wonder if he's ever going to turn up. 

I just might get my roof done though!

If I knew then what I know now about how hard it is to get things done I may well have kept my money under the mattress at home - as it was, we bought at the top of the market and would have done better buying now - but that's another story altogether.  

 

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[quote user="Nearly Retired"]
In one case of a plumber he eventually gave a devis but when I wanted a couple of small alterations he was too busy to even find the time to respond.
[/quote]

I've found, question anything about a devis and say goodbye to the artisan.  I made the mistake with a plumber of asking what boiler (make and model) he actually quoted for and that was the end of him.


chief, all you do is look in your local yellow pages once you move.  Your local commune (or one close by) will probably have all the artisan skills you need.  The way the phone books/yellow pages are organised make it very easy to find local people.  Ask at your local Marie, or your neighbours.  If I were to make a list of plumbers within a 20 Km radius it would be pretty long - and you want a nationwide list.

Are you sure you are not trying to start some business directory on the internet or something ?  Even in the UK, asking on an open forum "I'm looking for a plumber, send name, address, tel., e-mail, web, etc. to me.  I've no idea in what part of the country, nor what I would need them to do" - it would be daft in the extreme.  It will take you two minutes to look in the phone book - reduce workload later ??  What is the real game as I cannot believe anybody is being so .....

Ian

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Forgive my cynical wit, but perhaps Chief has already completed a precursor to his MBA, say a Dip. Ms and this exercise is a practice for before he uses the MBA skills in a business................. Thames Water, e.g.?[:D]

Sorry people, but having spent quite sometime as an External Examiner and Moderator to a University Business School and having had many (far too many!) head-to-head battles with textbook lecturers on the subject of Real World ism, I just couldn't resist this comment!

And that Deimos, might just provide your answer..................

 

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[quote user="chief"]

I am unsure at this stage, which region (Dept) I will be in.  In preparation however, I am compiling a list of Artisans from various trades (those associated with house renovations) plumbing, fosse septic, attic conversions, the whole shebang.

[/quote]

Are you mad????

Are you aware that France has an area of over 550,000 km², has a population in excess of 60 million, is divided into 21 régions (22 if you count Corsica), and has 96 départments?   Assuming people respond as you expect and even if you only select two or three firms
from each départment for each of the important trades you are going to end up with something approaching 2000 database entries!  I think the expression 'life's too short' springs to mind.  Could you narrow it down to, perhaps, north or south France or maybe départments that begin with letters between A and M; something to give yourself a chance having enough time to actually buy a property.

I see from your e-mail address you are in the nuclear industry - you don't have anything to do with the safety side of it, do you?

Have fun.

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[quote user="Deimos"]

[quote user="Nearly Retired"]
In one case of a plumber he eventually gave a devis but when I wanted a couple of small alterations he was too busy to even find the time to respond.
[/quote]

I've found, question anything about a devis and say goodbye to the artisan.  I made the mistake with a plumber of asking what boiler (make and model) he actually quoted for and that was the end of him.


chief, all you do is look in your local yellow pages once you move.  Your local commune (or one close by) will probably have all the artisan skills you need.  The way the phone books/yellow pages are organised make it very easy to find local people.  Ask at your local Marie, or your neighbours.  If I were to make a list of plumbers within a 20 Km radius it would be pretty long - and you want a nationwide list.

Are you sure you are not trying to start some business directory on the internet or something ?  Even in the UK, asking on an open forum "I'm looking for a plumber, send name, address, tel., e-mail, web, etc. to me.  I've no idea in what part of the country, nor what I would need them to do" - it would be daft in the extreme.  It will take you two minutes to look in the phone book - reduce workload later ??  What is the real game as I cannot believe anybody is being so .....

Ian

[/quote]

thanks for the advice, and no i am not looking to create an online directory, etc etc etc etc .........bye

 

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[quote user="Nearly Retired"]

We've had our maison secondaire for over two years now. I had visions of getting 3 quotes for jobs, knocking down prices and so on. Two years wiser I'm finding even artisans recommended personally need 3 or 4 chases simply to turn up and visit. Don't tell anyone, but now I don't bother getting 3 quotes - one on its own is so damned hard to get. In one case of a plumber he eventually gave a devis but when I wanted a couple of small alterations he was too busy to even find the time to respond. Result: Devis timed-out and now he's not interested at all. I've paid 30% up front to a properly registered brit electrican but 4 months on I often wonder if he's ever going to turn up. 

I just might get my roof done though!

If I knew then what I know now about how hard it is to get things done I may well have kept my money under the mattress at home - as it was, we bought at the top of the market and would have done better buying now - but that's another story altogether.  

 

[/quote]

 

I know you and Ian both have said that it is very difficult to find artisans and don't even query the devis. But aren't you finding it different now?  I don't know where you are located but I have noticed a real difference recently.

By the way we also bought two years ago at the top of the market so unfortunately understand your sentiments [:(]

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I tend to agree, I just think he's being unrealistic and and naive rather than underhand.  There's some good advice here amongst the barbs.  I've just been helping a couple of friends move out here and they've taken my advice and are renting (from two other friends of mine) to test the water properly before diving in.  Maybe Chief might think about doing the same.  It's tempting to try to get all your ducks in a row before coming here but it's really hard to make it happen that smoothly. Go with the flow.  Most people on this forum have done it so (no insult intended) - it's probably not the rocket science he imagines it is.
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I can see why some people have been sceptical....I've been amongst them in the past but I've been taking chill pills!

However, doing research is one thing but I think his collating info is a wee bit over the top, most people who move to France have done some research but the wheel can still come off, the best laid plans of mice and men etc.

As has been said, if you want / expect things to go swimmingly, you will be disappointed as there are always factors that you cannot control no matter how hard you try. just enjoy the ride!

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Does seem odd to want this info, but there you go.

My advice is wait to move over (already said) and ask the neighbours. Not only will you get the best person for the job, chances are they will have done work for your neighbours so you can see the quality for yourself. Also a good icebreaker to meeting your neighbours and putting some money into the local economy. I have found that, near us, all building /fosse emptying etc services are provided for very locally, and we are quite rural!

Louise

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[quote user="WJT"]

[quote user="Nearly Retired"]

We've had our maison secondaire for over two years now. I had visions of getting 3 quotes for jobs, knocking down prices and so on. Two years wiser I'm finding even artisans recommended personally need 3 or 4 chases simply to turn up and visit. Don't tell anyone, but now I don't bother getting 3 quotes - one on its own is so damned hard to get. In one case of a plumber he eventually gave a devis but when I wanted a couple of small alterations he was too busy to even find the time to respond. Result: Devis timed-out and now he's not interested at all. I've paid 30% up front to a properly registered brit electrican but 4 months on I often wonder if he's ever going to turn up. 

I just might get my roof done though!

If I knew then what I know now about how hard it is to get things done I may well have kept my money under the mattress at home - as it was, we bought at the top of the market and would have done better buying now - but that's another story altogether.  

 

[/quote]

 

I know you and Ian both have said that it is very difficult to find artisans and don't even query the devis. But aren't you finding it different now?  I don't know where you are located but I have noticed a real difference recently.

By the way we also bought two years ago at the top of the market so unfortunately understand your sentiments [:(]

[/quote]


If anything its getting harder. However, that might be the area (as I only live in the one area I cannot really compare with other parts of France). Around here property prices seem to be on the increase (at a respectable rate from what I am told). Foreign buyers and Parisians continue searching for properties and things seem pretty buoyant.


Ian

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