Our first soir'ee into the market place.

[5-element]

Oh no! Dick played fastest finger first again![:'(]

Does he get the 5 points?

[Dick Smith]

Been watching Jeff Stelling, hones up the old reflexes.

[Cat]

Sorry 5-e, but my trusty assistant Samantha tells me that Mr Smith lobbed his ball over the net first.

So it's a well earned 5 points to Dick then [:)]

 

[Dick Smith]

Thank you very much. I'll keep them with my Iris points that I never get round to converting!

[Coco]

Hey Bob,  I know what you meant in your first posting - you were doing your first visit at night; it's obvious - so what's everyone making all the fuss about?  Use of a wrong word, even spelt incorrectly or without the right accent is surely not a hanging offence - unless you have nothing better to do with your life than pick holes in others.  What I find MUCH, MUCH more annoying is those on this forum that throw a french word into an english sentence, like "we're off to our maison secondaire for the summer" or "we're looking for some new cupboards for the cuisine".  Now either speak English or French, but don't ponce about and use the odd French word that you know and do the rest in English, it is just SOOOOOOO pretentious.

Happy house-hunting Bob.  Hope you find somewhere really nice, away from all the nit-pickers. [;-)]

BTW, my sympathies with the imo thing - they're all the same - it took us two years to find the right place and we had to get really stroppy with a few immos who just wasted our time with stuff that was totally unsuitable.  I threatened them with the bill for our ferry if they did it any more, especially once they had and understood our spec, or if they brought us over to look at houses they were advertising that had long since been sold. It seemed to work - we found the perfect house on the very next trip.

[Dick Smith]

Go on, Coco, you say what you mean, non?

[Chancer]

I do try hard to not use french words in my postings here but sometimes I just cannot remember the word any more in English, such is my immersion in the language.

Other times I use French phrases in English conversation when there is not an understandable translation.

One one hand I am losing masses of English vocabulary but on the other I am gaining some wonderfull new phrases.

I personally prefer that someone writes "I used such & such when I redid our cuisine", it tells me that they meant in France.

[Dick Smith]

I know that a couple of other posters have the same issue. Me, I often can't remember a word in any language, or it pops up in Latin or Old Norse or something equally silly.

And - this is a forum for people who have an interest in France, so the occasional French word or phrase, c'est pas grave.

I find it a good way of learning little bits of Français familier.

What still amuses me is the 'Marie' thing - what is that all about?

[Teamedup]

Coco, what is this all  about. Sometimes using a french word is just right, or I can't think of an english word that will do or it just comes out anyway.

It is exactly how I speak english here to other english speakers who speak french. And we all understand one another because we speak both languages. It isn't something that we do pretentiously, or unnaturally, none of us are like that.  Simply we speak a sort of franglais between ourselves and there is nothing wrong with that.

 

I DO not do it in England. However, this board isn't England or the UK. AND you know sometimes someone might  look up a word that I or someone else had used and learn a new one, and maybe even get the sense of what it means in every day use, rather than a clinical dic'ndharry definition which may not be right or have all definitions.

And since when don't the french add in the odd english word when they are speaking english, lots do entre eux these days.

 

So no, I won't stop my franglais.

 

[BJSLIV]

the 'Marie' thing - what is that all about?

I think you are supposed to make supplications to Marie and hope that your prayers are granted.

[Will]

Would they be planning supplications?

[Dick Smith]

I thought you had to stand on a barricade with a banner in your hand, risking pneumonia?

[BJSLIV]

Would they be planning supplications?

Thats what I had in mind!. Its of special relevance when the a church brings the Batiments de France into play.

 

[Coco]

[quote user="Teamedup"]

Coco, what is this all  about. Sometimes using a french word is just right, or I can't think of an english word that will do or it just comes out anyway.

Aha, now that's something different - yes there are French words that are unique and there isn't an English equivalent or there is one French word and you need a whole sentence in English to come up with the same meaning.  But "I've just redecorated the chambre"  or "there was a special offer in the supermarché this week" come on! 

  Call me picky if you like, but even though we're not in the UK on this board, considering so many people pick up on incorrect use of English grammar or spellings then yes, I do find it pretentious to stick the odd, very basic French word into an English sentence.

And since when don't the french add in the odd english word when they are speaking english, lots do entre eux these days.

  I think you might have meant when they are speaking French here.  Nevertheless, I would find that just as irritating.  I'm not one of those that thinks it's alright for the French to do it but not the English.

Round here in fact, they are oblivious to English words even being english.  There's a local bar owner we know (English) who offered free beer to one of her French customers if he really couldn't speak a single word of english.  She then proceeded to ask him what he called Saturday and Sunday "le weekend" came the response, "and the area outside my bar, what's that?" "c'est le parking".  So, came the reply, you know TWO english words.  But oh no, the whole bar was in agreement, weekend and parking are FRENCH words!! [;-)]

[/quote]

[Patf]

Teamed up - don't act the innocent. Do your remember "quignon"? I asked what it meant and you laughed!  Well you wrote LOL whatever that means. I think you were only teasing but someone who wasn't familiar with your banter might have been upset. Pat.

[mint]

coco

i have to disagree with you totally on this one.  it's fine to throw in the odd french word, it adds colour and variety and it is sometimes a shorthand way of saying, "i'm on the same wavelength as you"

i live in wales and i WILL often use the odd sentence or word in welsh when i am speaking to a local.  i don't mean to  be pretentious, just trying to ease the communication and it also makes me feel less of an outsider

as a child growing up in malaysia, we often mixed up ALL our languages.  we might start a sentence in english and end it in malay.  all the other children would know what we meant and, sometimes, there was a certain humour in switching.  at other times, we did it to prevent an outsider, such as a parent or a teacher, from understanding what we were saying!  mind you, my poor husband did find it bewildering the first time we went for visit!

as others have pointed out, this is after all a french forum for people with a particular or even a general interest in france.  as far as i'm concerned, if it aids communication, gets a point across in a succinct and entertaining way , helps me feel part of the forum community, then i am all for it.

je ne comprehends pas what you have against this? 

[suein56]

[quote user="Coco"]

BTW, my sympathies with the imo thing - they're all the same - it took us two years to find the right place and we had to get really stroppy with a few immos who just wasted our time with stuff that was totally unsuitable.  [/quote]

But you yourself do the very thing you are complaining about Coco! 

I do it too and I do not feel I am being pretentious, probably lazy, but just normal.

Sue [Www]

 

[Cassis]

When we were planning our first (and, as it turned out, only) serious French property recce/foray/sortie we made a list of "must haves", "would likes" and "must not haves" which we sent to agents in the two areas in which we were interested. 

I can't remember the details any more, but it was not a huge list, the "musts" were something along the lines of:

• plot between 2000m2 and 2 ha

• suitable for conversion into 3-4 bedroom B&B
• must be currently habitable in part - not a full barn conversion or restoration from scratch

• budget xxx,xxx to buy and to complete any repairs/conversion work

One of the "would likes":

• within walking or biking distance of a baker or depot de pain

One of the "must nots":

• noisy or annoying business activities in the immediate vicinity

We specifically said we would rather just see a few properties that came close to fitting our requirements, rather than waste time visiting loads that did not.

   

In the event, the agents showed us properties which included a barn

with no walls (just posts supporting the roof) in the middle of nowhere, a huge house that would have cost double our budget to restore, a house with 25 hectares of land, a house adjoining a scrapyard, etc. "I thought you just had to see this because of the wonderful potential/location/blah, blah".

Thankfully we were also shown a small number of properties that ticked some, if not all, of the boxes.  Sorry about that cliché.  And we were lucky enough to find one that suited us almost perfectly, the very last house on our last day of visiting.  Oddly, the agent said he did not think that we would want that one because it was located in a village.  When we asked him why he thought we were village averse, he said it was because the English generally did not want to buy somewhere near other people. Doh!!!

[oliveau]

[quote user="Coco"]

  What I find MUCH, MUCH more annoying is those on this forum that throw a french word into an english sentence, like "we're off to our maison secondaire for the summer" or "we're looking for some new cupboards for the cuisine".  Now either speak English or French, but don't ponce about and use the odd French word that you know and do the rest in English, it is just SOOOOOOO pretentious.

[/quote]

Do I get a sense of  deja-vu?

We wouldn't after all wish to upset the entente cordiale!

I could go on, but I'll leave it to others!

Peter

[5-element]

Mixing languages is a totally natural way of speaking for immigrants throughout the world! C'est tout a fait normal... I speak franglais with all my other bilingual mates, we always speak franglais in my home too. It also seems quite normal to do it here on this forum, it gives the monolinguists a chance to catch up!

[Deimos]

I did the same technique as the OP (spend a bit of time looking at what was really available first thing in the morning, select those that were possible then arrange visits). It is true you tend to see fewer than one might if spending all one's time charging round looking at anything. I found the method very good as the agent had actually visited the property and thus one could eliminate a load that looked good on paper but once the guy knew what you were looking for he could say "not really suitable as there ..." and you have saved an hour straight off.

I did mean that virtually every property I saw met all (or virtually most) of what I was looking for. I saw a decent selection (price comparison), did not like them all (often small things that you really have to see to appreciate) and found what I was looking for after a few visits with the agent concerned. I did not suffer from the same problem Cassis had - which suited me as I had limited time/visits available.

My own opinion is that time spent selecting round a table is time well spent and is actually a lot quicker than time spent driving round the countryside to see properties that are totally unsuitable.

Ian

[LanguedocGal]

Bobh, you clearly have a lot of experience in the buying process but I think WJT’s and Ian's points are sound. I would like to add, beware of their stereotypes of Brit clients – in case they have any.

Unless you really get them to ‘take on board’ your needs, you are going to waste more time than the average house-hunter. The reason being that your requirements may be slightly 'unusual' and in my experience in home hunting in Languedoc, agents are not great on the unusual (for them) requirements. You are looking for a property to house a small commune [:)]which is totally different from what they may be used to.

After months of receiving info on houses with gardens on the outskirts when I had specified city centre,  I asked the agent concerned why, as I had no intention of viewing anything he sent me. To my surprise, he asked me if I wouldn’t regret it as my animals wouldn’t have anywhere to run around. What ruddy animals?!!!! Turns out, his Brit clients always made a point of this and so, of course, I must have had them too and had simply forgotten to mention it.  I had to stress to him that I’d much rather jump in the middle of the ocean without a life jacket than to have an animal in my home. Extreme perhaps (though not far off) but he got the message and I didn’t receive info on anymore commuter belt pink houses.

Hopefully, they are a little less blinkered nowadays. Ok, this is a few years back and the agent meant well.

Nonetheless, to avoid time wasting, get the message across firmly and quickly because your budget is likely to get some of them very excited and keen to throw a lot of nonsense in your direction. So, instead of sitting around the table whilst you are impatient to get out there, they can email you details of suitable properties prior to meeting them; enabling you to spend every second on viewings when you are with them.

[Coco]

[quote user="Spg"][quote user="Coco"]

BTW, my sympathies with the imo thing - they're all the same - it took us two years to find the right place and we had to get really stroppy with a few immos who just wasted our time with stuff that was totally unsuitable.  [/quote]

But you yourself do the very thing you are complaining about Coco! 

I do it too and I do not feel I am being pretentious, probably lazy, but just normal.

Sue [Www]

 

[/quote]

No Sue I'm not.  I have already agreed with TU that if a French word or phrase is quicker, easier or describes something better, then I think it's OK to use it and "imo", when typing, is a lot quicker and easier than "estate agent " but in addition I was quoting the previous user.  And I understand what Sweet17 is saying too.  I don't have a problem with mixing languages per se, when people genuinely "mix" languages (and it is much more usual to be in the spoken rather than written form) that is fine and something that happens naturally, but too often it is just a very simple and basic noun that is used on this forum when it is almost (but I won't be quite that snobby or condescending as to say) one of the few French words that person knows.  So why write "we ate in the salle a manger at Christmas" when it is just as easy and quick to write "the  dining room".  I don't actually believe that if speaking to someone you would say that.  It just doesn't flow right.  But I do fully accept that there are instances in colloquial speaking where to mix languages it does. Unfortunately on this forum, 9 out of 10 times it is the simple nouns that I have used as examples that are substituted and it is interesting to see that the people that have argued the point with me are those that make good use of mixing languages.  Those that I have seen as "guilty" of prententiousness are those that have either not seen or read this thread or are keeping quiet because they know exactly what they are guilty of.  Needless to say, we all have our pet hates.  This is just one of mine and it was made in a way to defend the way that everyone JUMPED on poor old Bobh for using the wrong French word and that was my main point in the first place.  He used the wrong word, so what? but a lot of pedants had a go at the poor bloke for doing it, whilst a lot of others continue to fulful their pretentions with their franglais. [:P]

 

[Dick Smith]

So, pretentious language is your bête noir?

As far as the OP was concerned I think it was the transparent attempt to explain away a mistake as humour, and then the awful faux-cockney (must stop doing that) post that did for him...

Always remember the first rule of holes...

[Teamedup]

I just think in my rather simplistic way that IF people hadn't done a sort of franglais some considerable time ago that we wouldn't have all the french words we have in the english language that we have, and it could well be the less rich for it.

And if my parking is english, then surely my garage is french.

 

I'm for it all. It is just how people communicate. I don't like the idea of the Acedemie in France, languages that are too closely monitored start to die don't they.

 

And sometimes I have a bit of fun, with things like bread ends, now doesn't that sound awful. And for such amusement, then maybe looking things up will show a lot of things up, ie that some dictionnary's are not very good, or the real meaning of the word.

 

Patf, OP isn't on this list. I am not quite sure what it means, but everyone else seem to.

http://www.magicpub.com/netprimer/acronyms.html