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adventure
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Hello - Advice please!

I have just been reading a site that says it is a group of "English builders and French artians doing renovations and restorations". 

We require buildng work done on the facia of our townhouse.  They have said they can do the work and immediately came back with an appointment to discuss this for when we are in France.

My subsequent e-mails asking about whether the workmen are insured and if there is a ten year guarantee have been unanswered.  What would you do:

 -Keep the appointment and check again then?

-Think that as the company exists, things like insurance and the guarantee can't matter to a lot of people, and aren't that important. After all they do say they are cheaper and I could probably save myself some money?

or should I follow my instincts and smell a rat and not touch them?  

All opinions gratefully accepted

Adventure

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It's always useful to have devis detailing the work and costs - as a comparison if nothing else. Meet them, discuss what you want and tell them verbally and in writing that you would like a copy of their insurance document (decennel) attached to the devis when they prepare it. Some artisans do this routinely and don't need to be asked; others have to be asked. If you want to be sure the work is guaranteed, never sign a devis without having (and keeping) a copy of the decennel.

Never agree to work without having received a detailed devis. If you don't get one but they ask for money / give you a date for the work to start, that is definitely when the scent of decomposing rat hits the air.

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Check them out on www.cofacerating.fr or www.infobilan.fr to see if at least they are registered to work in France and what they are registered to carry out. Dosn't give any guarantee they are insured though and any artisan worth his salt with show you a copy or give you a photocopy of the policy if asked for it,they cost enough especially for multitrades so you are only too pleased to let people know you are covered. Ask to see previous works if possible in the area or speak to neighbours/locals and see if they know about them or have a reputation. As said and we are speaking from the trade side here, if someone can start work immediately they obviously don't have many clients, we are currently quoting six months delay due to workload although it could be anew concern and only just starting out. Investigate them but don't write them off until you are convinced they could be a problem and certainly don't give any more than a 20% deposit up front.
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The best thing ( apart from all the Devis stuff to keep it legal ) is to ask to see some of there work, I'm sure it will put your mind at rest, our builder could start quickly but has still done/ is doing a fantastic job but if I hadn't seen some of his work I wouldn't be feeling as confident. When it comes to important meetings I have a translator with me so they understand what is cruicial the rest of the time my limited french gets us buy. Something that proved to be very useful was to make sheets with picture of all the bathroom fittings, tiles, lights, wall lights, colours etc etc so he could get a feel for what we wanted which I leave at the house so he's got something to refer to (we are having 3 bathrooms put in and it would be really easy to get things muddled up, it also helpped at the plumbers merchants so they know which catalogues to show us, saved loads of time and miss understanding).Saying all that if they come accross as shady they probably are and keep well clear
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[quote user="Miss Babs"]The best thing ( apart from all the Devis stuff to keep it legal ) is to ask to see some of there work,[/quote]

We saw two examples of the work of our stonemason... unfortunately it didn't prepare us for the fact he took (from the day he started) 17 months to do what he told us would be 3 months work. [:@]

I think Mlle Babs' suggestion is good if you're having certain jobs carried out: carpentry, visible stonework, painting... but to be honest, I could never figure out how to tell whether the person happily showing off their stonework to us was actually related to (or the best friend of) our prospective artisan... and even if the artisan had really done the work being shown off as his.

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Asking to see insurance shows a degree of common sense. Don't let your cmmon sense be swayed by the offer of a cheap price (always results in bad work) or an early start time (means it won't be finished for years)[:)]
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We took an uninsured English worker to court last year (successfully) to get money back for work they hadn't (and couldn't) do.

Don't touch them if they haven't got the paperwork.

They were named on here (last May) following the court case, but continue to do business I believe.

What region are they in?

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Try and get dates included in the Devis as at least it gives you a get out clause if they haven't started and are dragging their feet, and a completion date with penalties for late work (not all builders will agree to this but it might show you mean business) and anyone who won't give some rough kind of deadline, unless they are a very specialist artisan probably aren't worth dealing with. 
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You do need to use common sense and ask for proof if you don't feel easy!

I work with a variety of builders in the S.E. and act as a translator/interpreter for them & the client.  Whilst I have my own professional insurance which certainly doesn't cover buildings!  But I make it very clear to clients I am not a builder but a facilitator.  However, all the artisans I work with are registered/insured etc, I often have English speakers asking for work (I don't employ anyone) but I always ask if they have the necessary paperwork as I don't want to mis-represent clients.

There is also the issue of giving X% up front ... do negoiate on that!  And as someone else said, if there's a waiting list then it's a bit like eating in a busy restaurant with lots of locals, you know the food's going to be good (as a rule of thumb!)

Bonne chance!

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There are lots of dodgy UK renovation companies about in France...its a shame because it kind of tarnish's all of us UK builders with the same brush....

We invite people to see our work and to meet previous customers..I think it sets a good working relationship.

We have a web site which has been around for about a year and we are only just getting work from it because we have only just started pushing it.... Our company is working on 8 renovations/builds at the moment and they all came word of mouth....who needs the internet...I ask you.

monti

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