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Help!!! Tiling disaster!


CatherineS2
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We have a holiday home in Normandy which we let out.

Last December, we ordered a new bathroom from Lapeyre and arranged for them to do the installation as well. The date was set for last week, it was only due to take one week but I blocked off two weeks, leaving me one week spare for contingencies.

The plumber and all the fittings arrived on time as arranged, he was punctual, pleasant and appears to have done a very good job on the plumbing and the shower installation, but not on the tiles - they look appalling, REALLY dreadful, I'm sure my 9 year old daughter could have done better.

I was so disappointed and angry. I called Lapeyre and the manager came out to inspect, and although at first he tried to fob me off, he did admit that it was not an acceptable job. I have been offered two alternatives - either redo the grouting, or tile over the mess. The only problem is that they can't do it next week, and we are now solidly booked up from next Saturday until 21st April. And even if I do block off a week after then, I shall be out of pocket as that would be a week that I would expect to fill at a cost of £350. Also, it would be the same guy coming out, and I'm not convinced that he is going to do a very good job, even with new tiles.

I have held back half of the balance payment I was supposed to pay them yesterday, so I do have money in hand. I am tempted to just refuse to pay an amount equivalent to the cost of the tiles and the installation of the tiles, plus my expenses for going back out again on Monday. I have contacted a good friend in the area who runs a property services company and he does have a good tiler he can recommend and he has cajoled him into coming out next week to see if we can salvage the mess. The only thing is, he has recommended that we don't tile over tiles, he says it is OK on floor tiles, but not on shower tiles as they are likely to fall off. But I am worried that it is not possible to remove existing tiles without ruining the shower (and it was not a cheap one).

So, can anyone offer me any advice?

1. What would be the legal implications of not accepting their offer of redress and refusing to pay for what they've done instead, given that I am running a business and time is of the essence? I have good detailed photos of the problem.

2. Is it true that it is not advisable to tile over tiles in a shower?

THANKS FOR ANY HELP - I am tearing my hair out!!!!

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[quote user="CatherineS2"]

1. What would be the legal implications of not accepting their offer of redress, given that I am running a business and time is of the essence? I have good detailed photos of the problem.

2. Is it true that it is not advisable to tile over tiles in a shower?

[/quote]

Can't help with the first question but the answer to the second is that it is Ok but you must treat the existing tiles with an etch treatment before applying the new ones. I can't remember the name of the mixture, but it's red, very sticky and smells a bit.

edit: I was just wondering what you would end up with if you went into the shop and asked for "it's red, very sticky and smells a bit"

[:)][:)]

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You'd end up with Cassis...

We used to have tiles over tiles, and it was OK, but they were a bit naff. When we had them replaced we had the walls taken right back to brick - the shower was just getting smaller and smaller!

As for redress, how about getting a refund and paying someone else to do the work?

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Wow Bugbear, that was quick!!!

Yes, LaPeyre did mention something about some product that they would need to put on before adding the tiles, so I guess that is what they are talking about. So now I am beginning to question just how good this second plumber must be if he doesn't know about this product!!!

Now I'm in even more of a quandary!! Have you done it? (tiled over tiles that is!). And if so, how was it for you? :-)

EDIT: (Thanks for your reply too, Dick. I guess it wasn't very good for you then! How easy was it to remove the existing tiles though? I am really worried about damaging my super-duper new glass shower enclosure).

 

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[quote user="CatherineS2"]

How easy was it to remove the existing tiles though? I am really worried about damaging my super-duper new glass shower enclosure).

[/quote]

Difficult. The job isn't hard, it's messy and destructive.

We had paid to have them done, and ended up in much the same position as you, but the builder was the husband of a colleague of Julie's and it would have been difficult to complain, so we wimped out...

When we had it done properly they Kango-hammered/chiselled all the tiles and plaster off, replastered and retiled. No shower stall would have survived that, but I guess you could do it by hand (remember serious eye and artery protection) much more carefully if you took the time. It also meant that the room was out of use for some time, which you don't want.

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My O.H. is a ceramic tiler and has been tiling all his life he is 52, when he tiles over tiles he sometimes puts pva on but if they are clean just tiles over the top, but he has said to me to tell you to rip them all off, although it is a pain its the best way, keep the money back and get a different tiler,he often comes accross plumbers that say they can tile and they are just not up to standard.Ask at the Marie for a list of local tilers who just do that for a living you cannot go wrong if they are reccomended by someone who has had a good job done, he is over at Easter if you want him to have a look, we are in the Limousin.Please feel free to PM me if you want me to ask him anything else.Best wishes.
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Doesn't it depend where abouts the shower enclosure is fixed in relation to the tile ? For instance if you have just tiled inside the shower it may be easier than if the upright of the shower door comes in the middle of a tile had you tiled the whole room or wall.?

Just spent the morning looking at baths and tiles - its more complicated than I had ever thought - talk about spoiled for choice !

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Catherine

Why dont you just leave the tiles as they are for the moment. Maybe the guests wont spend too much time looking at them. Claim some money back from Lapeyre and as someone else suggested get someone else in to redo it when you are not quite so busy.

Life really is too short to worry about tiles being laid properly and getting too stressed will not help you run your busines. I'm sure the guests will understand if you explain what has happened.

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Dear fulcrum,

Thanks for the advice! Usually I am very Zen about this sort of thing, but you really do have to see them and then you'll realise why it's not so easy!

Yes, I am sure that our guests won't spend too much time looking at them, but the point is, I will know that they are there, and that we spent A LOT of money doing up our bathroom and bought high quality bathroom fittings, only to for it to look like some cheap rubbish DIY job.

Take a look at the evidence: www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~pslack/photoclinic/Webtiles.htm

And this is what the tiles should look like: http://www.lapeyre.fr/Lapeyre/o_decouverte/o_02/o_02_pop_tendance.htm?image=/Lapeyre/images/o_decouverte/o_02/o_0204/o_0204_b/04_visu1_b1_zoom.jpg

I rest my case...

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LOL!!!

I really did laugh out loud when I read your post cooperlola!!!

The choice of those tiles has been a contentious issue with me and my OH. He chose them and I HATE them. So I suppose I should be grateful to the plumber for giving me an excuse to replace them...

So, now, instead of getting stressy about the whole thing, I am going to look at this as an opportunity, not a problem. It's given me a great excuse to get my way in the end, I'm off to the tile shop tomorrow to get some decent ones.... 

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hi catherine

Having been a tiler for the past 30 years (is it really that long??) and having seen many peoples diy attempts at tiling, this doesn't even come up to that standard, i have to say it is beyond belief that a national retailer would send out a tradesman to do such a poor quality job, and then suggest sending out same tradesman to put it right . I would be inclined to get someone else to put things right and if you aren't holding sufficient funds back, then ask them to pay the difference. If they value there reputation you shouldn't have a problem.

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Catherine

I am lost for words. I didn't realise that the tiles were THAT bad. I was under the impression here in France that all tradespeople have to be qualified. For a major company to employ someone who does things to such a terrible standard is beyond belief.

I would definately seek a refund and maybe posting the pictures here was not a bad thing.

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[quote user="CatherineS2"]

we spent A LOT of money doing up our bathroom and bought high quality bathroom fittings, only to for it to look like some cheap rubbish DIY job.

Take a look at the evidence: [/quote]

Curiosity took me to look at the evidence.  Bad news!  Even an enthusiastic amateur would have done a better job than that.

I can add nothing to what has already been said, other than "best of luck".  Hope it all works out.

 

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Thats awful, just awful.  I can see now why you're making a fuss.  I have no training in tiling but always do my own and I can honestly say the end job always looks fine, IMHO.  So however did that job must have been drunk and / or in a rush to do more vandalism elsewhere!   I would also say that those tiles must come off, dont think about tiling over them.

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You have to give them a chance to put it right and at the same time, cover your back in case you cannot reach a suitable compromise.

If you have not already done so, put your objections to Lapeyre in writing with LR+AC with photo evidence.

Suggest that you will withhold the balance you owe them until the work is done to your satisfaction.

Suggest that as they cannot put it right by the date you need the work done, you have no other option but to employ someone else to do it.

Suggest that the cost of you employing someone else will be covered partly by the balance and that you will have no hesitation in taking whatever steps are necessary to ensure you will  not be out of pocket though their incompetence (the tiler works for them, whether employed or self-employed, the responsibility is theirs)

This will constitute the basis of your claim should it become legal. Do keep a journal of all conversations (dates/times/names) and proof of receipt of your letters.

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Thanks Clair.

Yes, we did come to the conclusion that we had to give them a chance to put it right, because if we get someone else involved, and they cause another problem (eg damage to the shower screen), then Lapeyre will be able absolve themselves of responsibility.

So I am going to write to them as you suggested (by the way, what is LR+AC?).

I am also going to leave a letter at the house addressed to all our guests over the coming months, explaining the situation, and asking them to bear with us until the work is done. There is nothing wrong with the shower, it works fine, it just looks bad, and I don't want people to think that is how it is going to be left.

I am popping back over tomorrow on a Eurotunnel overnight fare (thank goodness we bought somewhere that is easily accessible from the UK!), and on the way to the house will pop in to Lapeyre and hand over the letter in person. Do you think I should also send a copy to their head office? How can I keep proof of receipt of my letters? Do I need to get someone to sign for the letter tomorrow?

Finally, if they can't complete the work in time for our first guests on Saturday, do you think I could reasonably charge them the profit that I would have made had I been able to let the house for the week that I will eventually have to block off when they do come and do the work, even though I will not yet have had a booking? I suppose I could show the week as being available, and then if I do get enquiries for the week, then I will have proof that I could have let the house out. Sorry, thinking aloud here...

Thank you everybody who has replied to this post. I will keep you posted...

PS. Is there an equivalent of Watchdog in France? I'm wondering whether I should contact them.

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LR+AC = Lettre Recommandée + Accusé de Réception = registered letter + proof of delivery

Do not hand he letter over in person, that would have no legal standing. You can pop over and tell them that you intend to do all this, but sent it over by post.

EDIT: you can do this today from your PC in England through the French Post Office website:

register online and have the accusé de réception delivered to your

French address. It usually takes about 10 days, and you can check the

delivery status online too.

If you do lose a firm booking through it, keep all the relevant paperwork for a future claim.

If you do get enquiries for that week, keep all the paperwork to demonstrate your financial loss, but do not expect to be compensated for possible loss of profit if there is no firm booking or any enquiries. Worth a try maybe, but a long shot in my opinion.

It's way too early to start talking Watchdog equivalent![:)] Give them a chance to put it right...
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