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Metal wall framing - one question


Ian
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I hope those of you who're experienced with this system can help me here.

My walls are around 2.8M high. A sheet of placo is 2.5M, so I'll need one and a bit sheets to reach the ceiling. This means a horizontal support between the top and bottom rail, at the 2.5M level. What's the best way to construct this support?

Do I cut lots of bits of montant, each 600mm long, and fix them somehow? Or, do I use another rail, with the bottom and one side cut out every 600mm? Or, do I take the lazy way and omit that support, leaving the placo unsupported at the top?

Guidance gratefully received, thanks

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I'd definitely go with longer plasterboard sheets

(and I did when I installed some).

If you use smaller sheets you will have problems

making a neat joint where board end meets board end. As the ends of

the boards are not chamfered (at leant not the ones I found), the end

to end joint will show as a line. It cannot be taped and so will be

a higher risk of cracking, etc. Plus you have more joints to fill

and sand.  I ended up using boards just over 3m (cannot remembe rthe exact length) and they were not problem to find - just the local builders merchant.

Much easier, quicker and neater to use longer

sheets of plasterboard.

Ian

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[quote user="Ian"]. What's the best way to construct this support?

Do I cut lots of bits of montant, each 600mm long, and fix them somehow?

No too difficult to cut and fix

Or, do I use another rail, with the bottom and one side cut out every 600mm?

That is how I do it but using a crimp tool.

Or, do I take the lazy way and omit that support, leaving the placo unsupported at the top?

That is how all the "plaquists" I have seen are happy to leave the job! When I have questioned them I get the standard "I am the proffesional, I have been trained, do not question my judgement" to be fair French customers probably havnt!


Guidance gratefully received, thanks
[/quote]

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Folks, many thanks for all the ideas.

I'd like to use longer sheets of placo, but it would be very tricky - the rooms are beamed, so half the sheets would have to be cut to fit round the beams. Plus, I may have to do this all by myself, and 2.5M sheets are about the limit of what I can lift and move. What I plan to do, instead, is to install complete sheets up to just below the beams, then cut and fit small pieces for the top. Yes, there'll be a join, yes, it'll be noticable if you look, but it will be 2.5M up.

Hence, I reckon I'll go with the second rail approach. If I cut and bend it carefully, I'll be able to crimp it several times at each join, making it stronger.

Which brings me to a supplementary question. In the video (it was very informative, thanks Derf), the guy doubled up the montands. Definitely needed for a partition wall, I agree, but this is a secondary wall in front of the original stone walls. Braced against them with offcuts here and there. Do I need to double up?

Thanks

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You could always set up the verticals/ montants at 500 mm centres and run the sheets horizontally that way you could have two at 1.2 mtrs and a cut section at the top of 400 mm and the tapered edges run horizontally too so there is really one bad edge to take care of, at the top. The beauty of this is that you have a small piece to struggle with up a step ladder and its easier to form smaller bits then whole sheets. Just a thought !!!!!

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I dont double them up as I am tight but you have to be much more carefull with your pitching to allow both sheets to be screwed to the one montant.

Problems can occur when working from an internal  corner and forgetting to allow for the thickness of the board on the other wall.

PS I brace against existing walls with expanded foam, my bodging util of choice!

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I did a room using 3 and a bit m long

boards (single handed. every board needed to be cut to length and

the ceiling was not level so the all had to be individually measured,

cut, tweaked, re-done until they fitted properly. I did it single

handed to you should be able to manage less than 3m boards OK (by

yourself).

Running the boards horizontally would

avoid a horizontal line, but would give you a vertical line !! I

would say if you are going to do the job, do it properly. Done badly

stands out very clearly as having been done badly (previous owner did

a room badly and it really looks DIYish.

Ian

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Deimos, I agree, if a job needs done, it deserves to be done properly.

However, it's not one room, it's four, calling for around 120 boards excluding the top pieces, and until it's done we can't move from the caravan into the house, and winter's coming.................

Pressure, pressure!

I think I can probably do a reasonable job of blending in the top pieces, and it will be 2.5M up.

JR, thanks for the views on doubling-up. I may try the foam approach - it sounds quick and efficient.

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For end joints I use the normal stick on bandage,not paper tape and give a thin coat of jointing cement.When dry give a wider coat of  jointing cement and skim over ends with a flat sponge dipped in a slurry  If required you can always go over ends with a pole sander.

Regards.

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hi OK

for wall heights over 2.5 mtrs high , you can buy a small plane that takes " Stanley Knife " blades and is set at an angle, you just run it down the end of the board and it gives you a tapered edge , got mine from point p for a few €`s

<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j311/daveolive/27-10-2006169.jpg" border="0" alt="Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket"></a>

Dave

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Dave, looking at your photo, that's the sort of installation I'm looking at. Thanks for the tip about the plane - don't think we have a Point P nearby, so i'll look in BricoDepot and leroy Merlin.

Did you use a third horizontal rail at the join between the whole sheet and the top piece? Doubled-up montants?

Thanks

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[quote user="Ian"]Dave, looking at your photo, that's the sort of installation I'm looking at. Thanks for the tip about the plane - don't think we have a Point P nearby, so i'll look in BricoDepot and leroy Merlin.

Did you use a third horizontal rail at the join between the whole sheet and the top piece? Doubled-up montants?

Thanks
[/quote]

 hi OK

           that room was done using chevrons , but have used it on the other above, I just used the full height 3 mtr montants doubled up @ 1.2 mtr centres , and crimped together ,but used 400cm centres and not 600cm ,this gives you 4 " up rights " montants to a sheet of board and not 3 , also I crimp a piece of  cut scrap rail  to the back of the single montants , bent  like this [____] so it just touches the wall at the back of the cavity " which should be vented "and then throw a good dollop of  Joker plaster onto it ,this stops any movement and gives a good solid wall .

 It`s going through its 3 winter and there is no cracks as yet !!!

 precis ====           ][ 400 cm [ 400cm] 400cm ][

hope this makes sense

        Dave

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Dave, you mention venting the cavity. We are busy putting up rails and were going to place the insulation in the rails but have found a French DIY book which shows the insulation going behind the rail straight onto the stone wall. All advice greatfully received have been chewing the pros and cons for a few weeks and no further forward. [8-)]
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[quote user="Ian"]Dave, looking at your photo, that's the sort of installation I'm looking at. Thanks for the tip about the plane - don't think we have a Point P nearby, so i'll look in BricoDepot and leroy Merlin.

Did you use a third horizontal rail at the join between the whole sheet and the top piece? Doubled-up montants?

Thanks
[/quote]

Unless I have missed it neither Brico Depot or Leroy Merlin stock them. Local large Reseau Pro does have the planes. 

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Dave, perfect sense and valuable advice.

In my ignorance, I was thinking about doubling ALL montants - obviously, only the ones at board edges need done! I'll also use off-cuts like you to brace, but may use JR's foam in place of your plaster. I'll also go for the 400mm spacing I think - a bit more money, but  worth it to do the job properly.

Thanks to all for sharing your experience.

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As a plasterer....I am suprised to read that you cant put tape on the ends of plasterboard...... That is wrong.... Use the sticky net tape ( scrim ) cover the tape with enduit, dont try to finish the job first time... just cover the tape then scrape off almost as much as you can so that all the holes in the tape are filled...then when dry, lightly sand and then coat the whole area about 6" into each board and feathering it out....its easy. then lightly sand again and paint. One other thing....take the first board and put it from the ground up...then on the second board push it up to the top and fill the bottom. Its hard to do the second board but if you have wedges ready to kick underneath when you lift it you'll be OK..( ask the wife...or better still someone elses wife!!!! ) One more one more point. If I were a beginer I think I would prefer the joints to be at the bottom as most of it will be behind furniture. People do look up more than down.

I am finished.....

Monti ( in a happy mood )

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  • 1 month later...
[quote user="Ian"]Dave, perfect sense and valuable advice.

In my ignorance, I was thinking about doubling ALL montants - obviously, only the ones at board edges need done! I'll also use off-cuts like you to brace, but may use JR's foam in place of your plaster. I'll also go for the 400mm spacing I think - a bit more money, but  worth it to do the job properly.

Thanks to all for sharing your experience.

[/quote]

The work is now finished (bar the infills round the beams) as above. For what it's worth, my experience is that:

A. Don't even try it without a proper crimper and a good pair of metal shears

B. It took two of us (a fit 21 year old and me - a bit older but still fit) to handle a standard 2.4M sheet. Diemos, you must be Superman if you can handle a 3.0M board by yourself.

C. Spacing the montants at 400mm centres, doubled-up at the board edges, and braced against the wall with offcuts and foam has made it very rigid. Assuming it stands the test of time, it was good advice.

Thanks again, folks, for the help.

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