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Living amongst vines / asbestos roof


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Hi

We have found an old house that we are considering buying. It is in the Herault and has vineyards on two sides. Does any one who has bought a house in a similar position know of problems / drawbacks of being this close, insects etc.
The house has an attached barn. The whole roof has been replaced. Instead of a wooden structure there are now metal “A” frames and the covering is corrugated asbestos, it appears to be about 20 years old and still water tight. Does removing this type of covering have the same disposal problems as in the UK ? The roof is about 120m2 so I am guessing replacement will cost about 20 000 € but if the asbestos needs special handling this would add considerably. From my experience of asbestos warehouse roof s in the UK, at 20 years they can become very brittle and at the end of their life. Before we get a structural survey has any one any thoughts on this ?

Many thanks


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Hi

Asbestos in roofs over here is quite common (according to our notaire about 60% have some somewhere).  We had some in our last purchase and we took them off ourselves, carefully!  We were able to take them to the local tip as there were not huge numbers of sheets.  Each tip here can take 'some' but not 120 metres squared worth.  As I understand it, if you get someone in to remove it you must ensure they are fully informed and take necessary precations etc.  You can legally handle it yourself but you will  then need to find a place to take the sheets for disposal.

With such a lot of sheets and the possible health risks involved I guess it would be best to get someone in to do it, as to costs, I've no idea.

As for vineyards being close I have no experience but would suggest you ask if they are organic, if not perhaps there would be more of a problem from insectisides etc, than insects!  Having said that we are next to a farmers field and I would guess he uses some insecticide on his crop but we have every bug imaginable climbing about, and lovely they are too, good for bringing in birds etc.

 

Panda

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I think I remember that when I bought my house in Aude there was an inspection report about asbestos, along with the anti-termite report.  Is this not obligatory?  I believe it is very dangerous to try to deal with asbestos yourself, as even a few threads breathed in can cause asbestosis.

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Two points. A)  If the roof is less than 20 years old it will not contain asbestos.

B) If it does contain asbestos , there is absolutely no danger in having an asbestos in a roofing material, in fact it is one of the best fire retardent products in the world, the risks start when people start to drill it or break it without taking precautions, then it becomes dangerous,  however, it is more likely a form of asbestos impregnated material that you are dealing with and therefore not as dangerous as asbestos sheet itself.

So, in a nutshell, if it is in good condition and doing its job,  leave it alone and it will do you no harm whatsoever.

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For once, I actually agree with Ron[:D]

The stuff on roofs, (rooves?) is cement asbestos, which is bonded asbestos, and nowhere near as dangerous as folk think.

However, it needs to be treated with respect, ie: any damaged sheets removed, no holes drilled in it, any rough edges sealed, etc etc.

If it bothers you, and you can afford to do so, by all means remove it/have it removed. The binmen happily took half a dozen old sheets I found in our barn when we moved in.

As for vines, I can't see that they are any better, or worse to live near than any crop. I was once on a campsite near Clermont l'Herault, whcih looked out over vines, the only problem was that the local farmer sprayed them one day and the chemical stink was awful. It only lasted an hour or so, though.

Oh, and my two lads used to nick the grapes and make themselves ill eating them[:P]

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We had exactly the same experience as you Ford Anglia at a Campsite in Burgundy. I thought then that I  would not want to live near a Vineyard but then again living in the country near any crop is not really that healthy!!

Regards the Asbestos roof: they have just put a new roof on our church hall, they did not remove the asbestos roof but covered it with ply wood and then put somethings like Zink sheets over it. It looks really good.

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The store room / tool shed attached to my place has a corrugated sheet roof that looks like asbestos  but it is covered with tiles to match the rest of the house roof...Our Notaire told us we had NO asbestos so I assume its the type of sheet previously mentioned .....I am leaving well alone .....perhaps if you are worried about fibres there is some coating that can be painted over it ...if so ...I am sure we will find out here  what to use !
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You don't say why you want to remove/replace it, is it simply because it's asbestos ?

As others have said, if it's in good order and watertight just leave it alone and forget about it.

The attitiude to corrugated asbestos roof sheets in UK is typically alarmist and a licence for being ripped off.

A few years ago in UK I needed to demolish a shed with such a roof of about 30 panels and was quoted £600 for the job. I was also told that I could deliver it to them at the authorised disposal site when they would generously charge me £1.75 per kg to accept and dispose of it, but of course they said, if I wanted to do this I would need a licence and it would have to transported in a hermetically sealed container....!

Unsurprisingly I declined both offers and without going into detail suffice it to say that the job got done and the material was discretely disposed of, and no, not in a ditch in the countryside at the dead of night, but you can understand why some might feel compelled take that route....!

As for living in the middle of a vineyard ? - no idea, what did the previous occupants die of..............[blink]

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My cousin lives in the middle of a vinyard...and apparently they spray at least 30 times during the season.

We bought a property...halfway up a hill...overlooking an apple farm down in the valley...they spray every week!!!

When we lived in Norfolk...we were surounded by wheat and sugar beet fields...during harvest times...and when the farmers sprayed we just closed all the windows...it's all part and parcel of living in the country.

If you live in a town...you inhale petrol and diesel...if you live in the country...the air is not necessarily much cleaner...but at least it's more peaceful.

Effie [:)]

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[quote user="Effie"]

If you live in a town...you inhale petrol and diesel...if you live in the country...the air is not necessarily much cleaner...but at least it's more peaceful.

Effie [:)]

[/quote]

Yes, peaceful,............. except for people, birds and animals coughing from the spraying, cows moo-ing at all hours, the neighbour's dog barking, birds singing at ridiculous hours. etc, etc, etc.

Only joking, of course.[Www]

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Oh Ford Anglia...I'm so glad you're only joking...I've always lived in the country...and been quite amazed at people who've moved from towns to the countryside expecting silence...and sweet country air.

I had to smile when I heard them moan when it was muck spreading time...(phew...merde)...or when the tractors left the quiet country lanes full of mud from ploughing...or when the combined harvester clattered and clanged all day and most of the night...or when they they had to slow down...and follow a herd of cows going back to the farm to be milked !!!

Our last home was close to the Norfolk Broads...and I loved hearing the cattle on the watermeadows...the owls...the geese...the ducks...the early morning wake up call from a rooster way across the fields....magic.

I loved it all

Effie

I had my first driving lesson in a Ford Anglia...Many many many...moons ago[:)] 

 

 

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The panels are probably fibrocement possibly containing some amient, my dechetterie wont take them, one in another commune does but you have to be a resident there (they pay for it in their local taxes) or pay the company "Onyx" who operate the site to collect it (very expensive) or accept it (still quite expensive).

I solved my problem by using lateral thinking and taking it to the UK where the local tip had a special container for it, although it turned out that I "n'avais pas le droite" (as everyone loves to tell me) to transport it across the departmental boundary or across the channel.

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On the subject of asbestos overreaction:

A well heeled friend had made an offer of more than one million pounds for his "dream property" during the search an fibrocement  roof was identified on an outbuilding as "possibly containing asbesto", he got a quote to remove, dispose and replace it, he then tried to knock down the vendor by this ridiculously inflated figure.

The vendor sensibly refused and said that he would replace the roof and dispose of the old one, which he then did by whatever means.

My friend then was too scared to buy the house because the guy didn't have documentation to show that it was done by the men in white spacesuits and was worried for his children in case any fibres remained.

More fool him I said, and reminded him of when we worked together labouring for a steel erection company and used to finish a shift on site looking like snowmen while the roofers were cutting the same sheets above us with circular saws. This was of course before he struck it rich and his outlook on life changed.

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[quote user="Ford Anglia"][quote user="Effie"]

If you live in a town...you inhale petrol and diesel...if you live in the country...the air is not necessarily much cleaner...but at least it's more peaceful.

Effie [:)]

[/quote]

Yes, peaceful,............. except for people, birds and animals coughing from the spraying, cows moo-ing at all hours, the neighbour's dog barking, birds singing at ridiculous hours. etc, etc, etc.

Only joking, of course.[Www]

[/quote]

Living amongst/near the vines is peacefull, especially when they spray the powered sulphur on still nights!![:D] We get spray gear going past our place every day about now, but the vines are far enough away (about 1/2 mile) not to worry us. If you live in the country it is something, as has been said before, you get used to. I'd much rather be here!!!

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I have either / or.   Guess which one I would much prefer if it were possible just yet?.

Traffic.   School-runners and commuters clogging up the roads or chucking their cigarette packets and sweet wrappers into my garden because they can't be bothered with the bin 2 metres from them.  Murdurous parking problems.  Kamikaze buses and lorries weaving in and out between road humps, trains rumbling through on  the way to Waterloo.   Fumes, dust, pollution, gridlock on any day of the week as well as aircraft noise.  Add to that the planes dumping fuel before they land at Heathrow, oh then theres light pollution whereby you rarely see a star at night and ASBO hoodies up to mischief outside the local shops.   Nice.

OR

Green fields.  Quiet lanes edged with daisies and buttercups.  Acres of corn gently waving in the breeze, a distant tractor chugging between fields and the occasional vehicle passing the hamlet.  There are birds singing.    Tiny little wrens to the buzzards circling overhead.   Even that little devil Monsieur Loir in the grenier!    The downsides are bearable though as I am sure I can cope with the whiff of manure when the cows are in residence in the next field, or the face of the house overlooking the lane being splatterred with mud when the farmer takes his tractor down to the barns.

Hobson's Choice - no choice at all is it?   Alas I have to make the best of it here for the time being but my heart lies elsewhere. Sigh!

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Small world and totally off topic, I lived about 10 miles from Stroud and worked in Nailsworth for a few years before the move out here 4 years ago.   It is, as you imply above, a lovely rural place, but if I still lived there I would be working 10 hours + a day and living in a very small cottage with a postage stamp garden and never getting to enjoy being there. 

So for me it's not just about the countryside, although I love it.  It was the opportunity to be able to walk my own land each day, own my own lake and work permanently from home!

Panda

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On topic, and with the benefit of experiencing (third hand thank God) the dreadful effects of asbestos related diseases, I would make the following points in case they are of interest.

Firstly, it takes just one asbestos fibre to induce asbestos related disease in some people; others appear to be immune to it and no-one knows why yet. In between these extremes lie the rest of us. There is no cure. If you get it you die.

Secondly the symptoms of asbestos related disease can take over 30 years to emerge. We simply do not know how many cases there are going to be in future from work practices of over a quarter of a century ago. Suffice it to say that both in the US and in Lloyds of London  insurers are anticipating claims running into billions of dollars.There are 2 ways of looking at this. If you get it it is truly awful. But you may well die of something else before it has time to have any affect on you.

Thirdly, there are several different types of asbestos - some are much more harmful than others. Have a look at the Health and Safety Executive web site for a full analysis of the problem.

Fourthly, not everything which is thought to be asbestos actually is (see other posts which make this point)

Fifthly there is an acceptable way of dealing with asbestos and that is encapsulating it. This is used in buildings where removal is not possible. As has been said elsewhere the danger only arises when you inhale asbestos dust and that will only happen if the asbestos is disturbed in any way. However if, for example, you had a roof made from the stuff and a tree fell on it in a storm, vast amounts of fibres could be released into the atmosphere and carried in the wind. Think of the potential damage that could do to your family/neighbours/community - although if people contract the disease it will be so far into the future that they are unlikely to know why. That should not make you feel any better about it.

Sixthly, the major causes of asbestos related disease is said to be industry - shipping (boiler lagging) motor industry (asbestos in brake pads) mining etc. In all these industries working practices have changed since the risk was identified many years ago so the current generation is not likely to have the same exposure as previous generations. But it can take just one fibre. No one knows how much asbestos related disease has non industrial origins - but the extent to which it was used as roofing for sheds and insulation for heating systems as well as home mechnics must mean that there is a risk out there.

My advice to the OP is that, as a very first step, he finds out exactly what his roof is actually made of. There may be no problem at all. You need a professional analysis carried out. There is no excuse for avoiding this, expense or otherwise. You need to know the extent of the problem. Once you have found out the exact make up of the material, check on the HSE web site as that gives guidance as to how best to deal with the problem. Then you can make an informed decision as to what you should do about the roof.

If you do just rip it down and dump it as seems to have been suggested you are risking not only your own life but those of others, but, hey, who will know?.

Yes there are firms out there who will try to rip you off. There are others who are honest about what they do. In the UK there has to be specific approval/licences to work with asbestos, maybe there is something similar in France.

As a final word, do any of you remember being at school and handing round a lump of raw asbestos in science class? That shows how old I am!

Andy

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