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Renting out your house in the UK


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Hello everyone!

We intend to rent out our UK house when we come to France. Reading the estate agents 'information' booklets I am filled with doubts as to which way to proceed for the best and would like to tap the experiences of people here as to which way is best.

My first thoughts have been to take our furniture with us and put in its place reasonable secondhand items. Now I have had some luck with this and have bought a lounge suite and dining room suite that is probably better then my own. However, I am fond of my own furniture; so mine will definitely come with us as it will add to the comfort factor of being in a new country.Things like my washing machine and dishwasher I am undecided about. As I have posh Bosch ones, I have debated getting new ones for UK and taking these too as new ones would be under guarantee if they go wrong for the new tennants. What do you think? And do I leave a television do you think? My daughter who has rented before says this is expected in a furnished rental property. Yet the estate agents' blurb says it is best not to leave anything like TVs and Hifis as if they go wrong, the tennants will come back on us for the repairs. Now this latter seems to make good sense to me. I have also heard that it is much more difficult to extricate tennants if the house is left unfurnished - is this the case? 

Then there is the paintwork -  I do not want this changed as it is neutral and all newly, professionally done. Can I specify that this is not changed or at least put back to what it was professionally when they leave?

 I have a wonderful garden and I intend to continue paying our gardener for its upkeep as it is a good selling point for the house, should we decide to go down that path at some future date. Bottom line is that whilst the house still belongs to us and there is an outside chance that we might end up back there, I cannot bear to see it fall into a neglected state after all my hard work and the gardener's too!

The other really thorny question is what level of management do we pay for with the agents? I think it is 28% of the rental if you have full management, this means they call out repair people if things go wrong or they will chase up payment defaulters and claim on the rental insurance for us if rent is not paid. I have heard that they will only use their own tradepeople and this involves paying high prices for work done as it includes a 'kick back' for the agents themselves, so I have wondered about getting a neighbour to call trademen out who we know will do a good job. Also we could pay the neighbour what the agent would have got for this. However as for lapses in paying the rent, we could not expect a neighbour to chase this up and it remains to be seen as to whether this would be more difficult to do ourselves from a distance. Has anyone had experience of this difficulty?

Yes, a lot of questions I know but I would really appreciate your advice and guidance in these matters!

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I too would like to know the experience of others on this. Although we do not intend to live permanently in France we do intend to spend a year or so travelling the world when we retire and are seriously considering letting our house during that time - as much to have it occupied and looked after (to an extent) than for the financial rewards.

There is a post elsewhere recently which strongly advises against letting your house furnished as it is likely that tenants will not respect your property the way that you might. I tend to agree with that view and if and when we do it an option will be to put everything into store. I will certainly be talking to several agents to get a broad range of views but they will all be biased to one extent or another, so the experience of those who have actually done this will be invaluable.

The alternative is to lock up the house and leave it empty but I think most insurers take a dim view of that and place restrictions on cover.

Andy

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Athene - you asked this question recently in the Longterm Letting in France forum and there's some information there. I don't know where you heard that the agent takes 28% - this could include tax if you arrange for the agent to pay the tax on the rent. We got 3 quotes and they all said 10%, which is what we pay. We pay the tax separately. All three advised to let unfurnished, though we left some white goods, I think washer and fridge.  In the other thread I mentioned getting permission from your building society if you have a mortgage. At first we kept on the gardener but this got too difficult to supervise so don't bother now. Up to now - 5 years - things are going ok and we are pleased with the income and with the sense of security it gives. Pat.
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Hello Athene

We're not recent landlords having sold our UK property in 1999 but in principle the same rules should still apply. I'll try to answer your questions in the order which you have raised them but there may be some crossovers.

All good Letting Agents should give the same advice but may put it differently. Read as many agent's brochures as you can and try to see some common advice between them.

As far as furniture is concerned don't leave anything which you feel may not be properly taken care of by tenants or anything you are especially fond of. To balance this view you must expect to leave  furniture of sufficient quality to attract  the type of tenant you are looking for. If you buy second hand furniture of dubious quality you may frighten away exactly the type of tenant you are trying to attract or you may give the impression that you are not too bothered about the overall condition in which the property is left.

When we first rented out in 1992 the Agent advised us to leave  as little in the way of electrical goods as possibe. We were told a cooker and a fridge  were essential but anything else would only lead us to paying repair bills if they broke down. Nowadays things may be different and tennats expect a washing machine and dishwasher; you will need to discuss this with the agent you choose. Certainly do not think of leaving expensive audiovisual equipment, satelite systems or computers.

The law used to differentiate between furnised and unfurnished accomodation. If I remeber correctly the law was very defined on rented accomodation protecting both the landlord and tenant but again you should take current advice from the agent on this one.

You can specify exactly what you will  or will not allow to go on in your property and this should be included in the tenancy agreement. If it's just been repainted that should not be an issue but make sure this is specified in the tenancy agreement.

Same for the garden really but in practice tenants will not  keep a garden  as well as you yourself would. If it's precious to you then it's a very good idea to keep your gardener on. We did the same with our cleaner for the duration of our first tenancy of three years and we felt very much at ease as, like you, we were abroad. Having an "owner's representative" ie the gardener, around, will also have a subtle affect on how your tenants treat the property in general although you should not expect the gardener to be your "policeman".

There are good and bad agents in Property Management as with anything you end up with using an agent for. Personal recomendation is always one thing to go by but you may want to consider what the agent has for rent to see if they are attracting the sort of tenant you are looking for. You may feel more confident using a big name agent or you may feel better using a small local company as they can become used to the type of tenant you are perared to accept and may also offer better continuity of their own staff. I say this from experience as we used both types over the seven years we rented out.

Your figure of 28% amazes me. We paid between 12 and 15% of the gross rental for what we considered to be a full management service. This entailed vetting the tenant and taking personal, bank and employer references. Drawing up a personalised tenancy as we required but within the framework of the law.Regular, and I do mean regular, property inspections which should not be greater than three months apart. Taking opening and closing inventories and charging for any missing items or damage to the property at the end of the tenancy (preferably in the case of damage this should be rectified as an ongoing exercise during the tenancy and not left to the end as it can build up and be greater than the tenant's deposit). Finally they should ensure the rent is paid promptly and the net figure passed over to you, also promptly. I've probably missed some things out but I hope you get the gyst of what I'm saying. You may also consider taking out a seperate insurance policy against non payment of rent. The agent will have details of these specialist policies.

As far as repairs of a wear and tear nature are concerned unless you have a "handy" friend you are stuck with the agent. There is clearly scope for them to add a reasonable figure on for administering the sourcing of a suitable repair man but you should ask to see copies of the tradesman's bill and not be satisfied with just seeing an amount taken off your rent account statement. Query the first one or two: it keeps the agent on their toes and shows you're no walkover.

If you do decide to get a trusted neighbour to do all this for you then it can certainly be done with a willing ness on their part and you and your tenant can end up getting a much more personalised service this way. As far as payment of rent is cocerned, if you arrange for the tenant to pay by transfer to your account then you can keep an eye on this using internet banking from anywhere in the world. You will probably spot late or non payment far quicker than your agent ever will and rectify the situation with an enquiring phone call to your tenant!

I've probably missed some points out but I hope it gives you a start in the decision making process.

Why did we use two agents? We discoverd the little local guy was charging us for all of the documentation to start up a new tenancy and we were losing almost a month's rental each time and he was also charging the new tenant for exactly the same sevices - robber!!!!!!! The big agent that we changed to was OK with the paperwork but hopeless at keeping an eye on the tenant and we ended up with an awful lot of decorating to do, tradesmans' bills and an almost ruined garden.

Best of luck.

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Well, I read this, and thought that it merited a long e-mail or pm in response, then I thought - might as well share my thoughts with the forum at large. I can only speak from my own experience, and I offer that in the form of factual comment NOT a whinge!

In common with Athene, we had a lovely house and garden in the UK, and when we bought in France [with the intention at that time of spending the summer in France and winter in UK] we hated the idea of the garden going to rack & ruin in the summer, and tenants ruining our furnishings.

We therefore sold the house and downsized to a small cottage that we could shut up, returning as & when we wanted. We therefore sent most of our possessions to France, retaining enough in the cottage to make it comfortable. We came to France in Juy 2004, and stayed for the whole of August, planning the renovation work with the maitre d'oeuvres. We finally moved over here in March/April 2005, and after a couple ofmonths decided that we wanted the house in France to be our 'maison principale', and that we wouild let the cottage, and as it was reasonably comfortable, we could use it if it was vacant and we wanted a break in the UK. In the middle of all this my mother went into a nursing home, and we had to empty her house ready for selling, so we moved furniture around again, leaving just basic comforts in the cottage and having another delivery to France [pm me for details of a reasonable remover].

I selcted a local letting agency, and went for full management, and a Polish couple with an 8 year old daughter moved in. After 6 months they had to return to Poland because her mother was ill, but they left the house in immaculate condition.

A new tenant was found, and we signed the tenancy agreement. After 6 weeks we had received no rent, and on questioning the agents they coolly informed me that the tenant had not after all moved in, and they were looking for another. We subsequently signed an agreement for another tenant - Father with teenage daughter.

Within a month we had a desperate phone call from our erstwhile neighbours telling us that the daughter was alone in the house 3 or 4 nights a week, and the local youths were appearing in droves at night causing havoc. I instructed the agent to get rid of the tenant at once, but was told we had to wait until the end of the 6 months tenancy. He then stopped paying rent, and I was advised that the easiest way of getting an eviction was for arrears of rent - We then waited 3 months for a court hearing, and he was in the property for 7 months in total, but only paid rent for 2 months. We didn't have rent guarantee insurance because the agent advised us that they had never had any defaulters.

The £900 deposit was used up in paying to rectify damage to the house, and in addition he owes another £800 for damaged furniture, including a £350 bed six months old, which was totally trashed. So far we have had £180 back through an attachment of earnings order, but that has cost £500 in solicitor's fees.

Needless to say we have changed agents, and are on the second set of tenants with them, and no trouble at all. These agents include rent guarantee as standard in their package - no cost to us. BUT we took everything out of the house and now let it unfurnished.

In the light of our experience I would recommend:

  1. Use an agent who is RICS or FNEA.
  2. Let unfurnished [which in fairness the first agent advised us to do.] There's no difference in rental between a furnished and an unfurnished house - Flats are a different story.
  3. Make sure there is a rent guarantee scheme in place.
  4. Watch out for agent's 'creaming off' schemes. On checking with our insurers [ 30 years as customers] they wouldn't cover properties that were let. Agent no. 1 said there was only one firm which would provide cover - Homelet ['mention our name when applying']. When I came to renew a year later Homelet asked if there were any problems, so I told them of the rent arrears as that was the current situation, and they then refused cover. The agent was no help, saying I should not have told the insurers about the tenant. In desperation I surfed the net, found a broker [pm me for details] & got insurance with no problem, at and at half the price.
  5. Go for full management for peace of mind. The odd jobs I have had done have been reasonably priced, and I leave the agent in sole charge of repairs & renewals. A good agent will ask you to specify how much they can spend without referral, and we went for £250.
  6. If you really love your home and garden, and letting perturbs you, you may be better to sell, and buy a property specifically to let, which keeps you in touch with UK market prices.

In response to Athene's specifics:

  1. Take your white goods, and let the tenants provide their own.
  2. Don't leave the TV - in fact leave nothing! You don't get a higher rent, and if the TV goes up the Swanee, that's another £x to spend.
  3. Modern tenancies don't differentiate between furnished and unfurnished - They are all Shorthold Assured Tenancies.
  4. The tenancy agreement will limit the tenants ability to redecorate your house in fluoescent orange! The house has to be left as it was found, less reasonable wear and tear.
  5. Tell the agent that the house comes with a gardener, who they should pay. Increase the rent to cover it.
  6. Definitely full management, but 28%?!!!! 12½% is nearer the mark.
  7. Agents won't chase up defaulters - A major bone of contention in our case. Make sure you have a good rent guarantee policy, but be prepared to pay your solicitor [or write off a debt].

I know it's a lengthy post, but the initial post merited a detailed reply.

Bon Courage, Peter

 

 

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Thanks to everyone who has posted! It seems there is a lot to consider!

Pat -"I don't know where you heard that the agent takes 28%" I have got the booklet and that I can assure you that is what is charged by a large agency in Brentwood Essex for a fully managed property! It does not include the rental insurance but does include them chasing up defaulters and claiming on the policy. It also includes all the checks and drawing up an inventory.

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Thanks Pat.

"We discoverd the little local guy was charging us for all of the documentation to start up a new tenancy and we were losing almost a month's rental each time "

In our area, paying out the first month's rental direct to the agent for the set up is standard. When I say 28% for the management, I have included this fee in my calculations. Now if the same tenants continue renting after the first year, I would hope that we would not be into paying another month's rent directly into the agent's pocket as there would not be credit checks needed; this is something to check out.

Once again thank you everybody, you have helped enormously!

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  • 2 weeks later...
A couple of yeas ago we were intending to rent out and have a year out in France but  it did not work out.  The agent was going to take 15% we had to apply to our Mortguage provider to ask permission to rent out the property.   The  gas fire and cooker had to be checked out and get issued with a Safety Certificate by a  registered Corgi  fitter.  We had to change the House Insurance to cover for  Rentals and  anything

you do leave inside the house has to have the Kite mark safety labels for fire etc.  We are moving  out in 2008  hopefully.

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Since reading people's advice we have decided to rent out unfurnished. It seems that nowadays there is more protection from clients who do not pay up than there used to be in the form of insurance policies. Also we will ship out our furniture and continue enjoying it in France. Our gas fire and cooker that we will leave are nearly new and getting the Corgi seal of approval will not be a problem as the engineer will have to come to get similar approval for the gas central heating. Also we will need the electrician's approval certificate. All this we knew when we considered renting. Also oddly the insurance is going to cost less, I suppose this is because we will not have as many of our goods in there. We are 'golden oldies' and do not have a mortgage, so that is not a problem.

It is always a big decision on what you do when you decide to live in another country. We really could do with a lump of cash to continue the renovation in France but are not prepared to sell up in the the UK yet as we are not sure how we will feel about living in France full-time until we have given it at the very least a two year trial period. It is one thing to share quality time in the sun with friends and neighbours but to be in France all the winter when there is less to do and less people to see... We will see!

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[quote user="Athene"]

It is one thing to share quality time in the sun with friends and neighbours but to be in France all the winter when there is less to do and less people to see... We will see!

[/quote]

Winter's winter, wherever you are, but in France in the winter at least the cold is a dry cold, and you can go for 10 euro lunches [wine included].

As for visitors, would they be the ones who keep you up until the small hours drinking your cellar dry, then emerge at 11.00 am saying "What are WE doing today?"    "Well I don't know about you mate, but I live here, and there's work to do, so perhaps you'd like to mow the grass for me."  Stunned silence from visitors.

Peter

 

 

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Hi Athena,

Just a short note before you agree to anything unfurnished. I was a lettings manager for some years and don't want to put a spanner in the works but i just don't like seeing people cutting off options that may prevent good tenants for them.

The best advice i can give anyone who wants to let is don't make any decision until an offer comes forward. There are always four things to an offer

1/The price - remember they might not always offer the asking price

2/Move in Date - again it might not always be ideal as there may be a small void period

3/Furniture requirements - they may request furniture or ask you to remove some. i would always recommend any potential landlord to be flexible with this as it opens up more options

4/The tenants themselves - there could be a whole range of potential tenant from Student to professional relocation all wanting and requesting different things.

Each of these four things will constitute an offer which have to be weighed up to see whether you will take the tenants or not. Myself and my wife have two rental flats and both are fully furnished (although i also never leave electrical goods like TV or video). Because of the level of furnishing that we have (or have supplied at their request and not at a great standard i must add) we have been able to secure corporate tenants in one and a, so far, two year let in the other.

Anyway i am going on a bit but my best advice is make the decision when the offer gets put forward. This way you will get the best and hopefully happy tenants.

Enjoy your new life!

James

 

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Hi while your on the subject of renting in U/K ... we are selling our house (offers in and ball rolling}what we are looking for is somewhere to rent in Dover area or at least south kent untill we find a property in France .Our furniture is going into storage so furnished property is better for us, we'll carry on working over here  and then trip over weekends, so if anyone knows anyone or someone who has anything to rent we 'd like to hear from them  ,,thankyou Big Smile [:D]
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Sensible idea selling up first as you will have money in the bank and be able to use that as a bargaining standpoint! Good luck with your search - please keep us posted as to how you get on! It is always fascinating to read about other people's French experiences. Where are you hoping to buy?

I have sent you a rough outline of what we are to rent out in Essex but suspect whoever rents it will be someone who has a need to get back and forth from the city as we have a train station in the village that is walking distance from the house.

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