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Installing a Wood Burner


robbie
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I have purchased an insert wood burner and surround and  have a few questions about the installation. It is to replace an older unit which has been removed and is to be installed using an existing brick chimney. The chimney does have a lining and I have been assured by the previous owner that it has been cleaned recently.

A few questions which immediately spring to mind are:

1. The outlet on the top of the burner is larger than then the existing

chimney insert/flue, can reducers be used safely to connect the two

2. For the flue, can 90 degree bends be used or are there rules on

the sharpest angle for the piping? Currently the insert in the existing

chimney is lower than the top of the new wood burner position when it

is in its surround.

3. Which are the main places for the installation of any heat resistant materials

4 Are their any restrictions on the materials to be used for manufacturing the chimney breast above the actual fire surround.

I am sure that the answers will bring more questions unless there is a guide written in English which I could follow.

I do consider myself as a more than adequate DIYer (this is my 5th house renovation) but have never needed to install a new burner before

 

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[quote user="robbie"]I have purchased an insert wood burner and surround and  have a few questions about the installation. It is to replace an older unit which has been removed and is to be installed using an existing brick chimney. The chimney does have a lining and I have been assured by the previous owner that it has been cleaned recently.

A few questions which immediately spring to mind are:

1. The outlet on the top of the burner is larger than then the existing chimney insert/flue, can reducers be used safely to connect the two

2. For the flue, can 90 degree bends be used or are there rules on the sharpest angle for the piping? Currently the insert in the existing chimney is lower than the top of the new wood burner position when it is in its surround.

3. Which are the main places for the installation of any heat resistant materials

4 Are their any restrictions on the materials to be used for manufacturing the chimney breast above the actual fire surround.

I am sure that the answers will bring more questions unless there is a guide written in English which I could follow.

I do consider myself as a more than adequate DIYer (this is my 5th house renovation) but have never needed to install a new burner before

 

[/quote]

 hi ok

1 ... no you can go up but not down in size

2   if it`s an insert then you will be coming out from the top ,so take it`s for the flue , not recommended 2 ---45 `s at a push , if you are going to do a question 1 then 2 -- 22.5.

3 you can get these from the local brico`s   red placo is heat resistant and for insulation  look for panneau de chemminees

4 did you have a booklet with the fire ( different heat outputs different distances ) but the flue must be 160cm away from anything combustible

 ps if you only want to heat one room ...you should have gone for a free standing one far better ...no loads better

 Dave

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Thanks Dave,

why can't you go down? I guess there is a reason and I am curious. If I need to be at least the same then would it be possible to run a new flue outside??

All the other points I understand fine, ta ;)

The idea is to heat more than one room and run one of the heating fans and piping into the bedrooms above to reduce oil costs for the central heating

Rob

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Robbie the reason not to reduce the size of flue is 2 fold: 1stly the fire will have been designed to operate at its optimum level for the flue size, 2ndly and a little more bizarrely, if you reduce the size of flue, it increases the velocity (not volume) at which air travels through the fire, which will push much hotter temperatures much higher up the flue, giving a greater risk of  chomney fires. Also makes your combustible material burn away faster, and not as efficiently. We have a large fireplace into which I have installed an insert, but have not inserted it into anything (left it open on all sides. Have also insulated the walls surrounding the fire and also the register plate, this €150 fire from Brico Depot, is enought o heat all our longere, both floors. It is often remarked how well it works, much better than expensive makes that are not fitted so well.

Here is a link to Approved Document J Building Regs in English, essentially the same throughout Europe. Beware it is 4.5Mb and can take a while to download.

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_ADJ_2002.pdf

Hope its useful for some of you

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thanks all for your responses and of course the safety aspect of all this.

I think I will install a totally new flue directly upwards through the bedroom above and then through the roof to a new chimney. I think this is the safest way in the long run. I was originally hoping that I could 'make it fit' but safety has to come first.

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  • 3 weeks later...
I'm wondering if any experts here can assist with a couple of similar questions. Having waited for the right weather we're now off to France to have a go at sorting our problem flue (described in my thread a few weeks back).

I want to go down a size, and then back up a size, with the first pipe (which is about a metre long before it disappears into the  plaster above in the fireplace). This is because the pipe currently (incorrectly) fits over the stove flange where it should fit into it. The resin that runs down the pipe then will be able to go into the stove rather than seep out of the joint onto the open top of the stove, waking us at 2 a.m. with it's (now) familiar choking odour.  Would this cause any adverse problems? Anyone know any shops in the Poitiers area where I can buy the necessary converters over the counter?

Secondly I have been advised that the flexible 'crinkly' liner is not appropriate for wood-burners. This is because the resin gets into the crinkles and no matter how mch you brush the chimney, the hardened resin is not dislodged until the chimney gets hot enough for the resin to melt and pour back down. My advisor actually says that we would be better off with no liner at all past the initial pipe in a wide and substantial chimney like ours. He says we just need a substantial register plate with a sliding access plate for sweeping the sides of the chimney. Does this make sense? It would be an easy cure to remove the liner.

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[quote user="John A."]

I want to to go down, and then back up, a size with the first pipe (about a metre before it disappears into the  plaster above in the fireplace). This is because the pipe currently (incorrectly) fits over the stove flange where it should fit into it. The resin that runs down the pipe then will be able to go into the stove rather than seep out of the joint onto the open top of the stove, waking us at 2 a.m. with it's (now) familiar choking odour.  Would this cause any adverse problems? Anyone know any shops in the Poitiers area where I can by the necessary converters over the counter?


[/quote]

Not correct John, the flange on the pipe fits over the outlet (not inside) and the crimped ends (male) of the sections must be oriented towards the appliance so that falling dust and condensation stay inside the pipe. This is far more important than any dribble back. That said, if its properly jointed you won't have any leaks to worry about.

Gary.

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Here is a picture of a flue pipe bend, all flue pipes should have the flange at the top as illustrated. Contrary to what many think, after this is sealed properly with fire cement there will  be no leaking of smoke or tar!!

[IMG]http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee19/jackiepentrecoed/pipe.jpg[/IMG]

Jackie

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Gary - it looks to me as if Chipie/Jackie's pipe bend actually fits inside the flange on the stove, because the pipe flange is at the top. This accords with the advice I have been given - i.e. the pipe should go inside the stove outlet, not over the outside of it.

My situation is a bit more complicated. My first upright pipe is on a slight slant - about 3 or 4 degrees - because of the chimney geometry the stove won't go far enough back to allow an absolutely vertical stack. Therefore  the join is slightly on the skew, which doesn't help. I did carefully push fireproof mastic from the inside of the pipe, with my arm up through the stove, into the join between the pipe and the stove flange, and that lasted for 3 nights. On the fourth night the black stuff found its way through and leaked out again.

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Hi, John,

I'm no expert on this subject I've only ever fitted the 13kw Supra that we currently have. The instructions that came with the fire actually show the first tube fitting over the circular cast-iron outlet on the top of the fire. They even supply an asbestos type seal to fit between the two parts (it was very tight fit) and Supra (I phoned them) told me to soak it in water before fitting.

As I said limited knowledge on this, but there are guys on here who fit them all the time and will have the definative answer to your problem.

Good luck with it.

Gary.

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Gary - This is very interesting, I think you've come up with the missing link.

Our stove is a Supra Alsace (10 kw) and it was installed 4 years ago in our absence. We had the first pipe replaced 6 months ago, but not by the same company that installed it. Because of the slope on the pipe it had developed a hole, where resin had been running down the seam inside, and fumes were escaping. We were there when the second pipe was fitted and there was no sign of any seal being used - they just slid it onto the outlet on the stove and that was it.

I have not got anywhere with my complaints to the repair company, so it t sounds like I need to get one of these seals from Supra and put it on myself.

Incidentally we had 3 excellent years with this stove, we were very pleased with it until this recent episode.

Thanks for your help!

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  • 2 weeks later...
Retread ... Thanks. I was coming round to this view myself. The stove outlet is 150mm and I think my pipe, which fits over it, is probably 153mm. I therefore need something which 153mm slides into and which in turn slides into my 150mm stove outlet. Sounds like a female to male adapter?

I can't get your link to work at the moment and I'm finding it difficult to find technical details about Supra stoves, or suppliers of bits, despite liberal googling of words like 'adaptateur' and 'raccordement'. However, I have found something  on a Castorama site, where they seem to sell an AURA stove with an adaptor which could be what I need ... http://www.castorama.fr/store/CatalogueDirecte/poele-bois-contemporain/p-categorie_6606-casto_product-PRDm990089.htm

so, a trip to Castorama maybe.

Thanks again - and to Nick Clarke for the supportive e-mails behind the scenes!

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  • 2 weeks later...
OK. I'm now a few weeks older and a little wiser about wood burning stoves. I have cured the immediate problem by replacing the fixed pipe with a new one with a reducer at the stove end. This means that the pipe now fits inside the stove flange, not around the outside of it. The tar which runs down the flue now runs into the stove to be burnt away rather than out of the pipe over the top of the stove, which used to give us the dreadful smell.

I quite agree that the tar should not be there in the first place, but I believe it is caused by the fact that we only use the stove one week in 5, and in the intervening 4 weeks the inside of the flue pipe gets damp from the sometimes foggy atmosphere, so when we light it again the smoke and dampnesss combine to produce tar.

After this experience the advice I would now give is that a stove like the Supra Alsace (and probably other Supras) is not suitable for occasional use through the winter months. This is because the flue pipe fits over, not into, the stove outlet and you are liable to get my problem. I suspect Supra is unusual in this respect because I have seen many stoves where the flue pipe is designed to fit into the stove outlet so my problem would not occur.

If anyone is interested in the numbers, the stove outlet is 150 external, 147 internal. My flue pipe is 150 and my new reducer goes from 150 to 147 - perfect fit. The female top of the flue, where it joins to the male flexible liner, is 153.

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