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Help really needed


Llwyncelyn
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I am aware of the experience on this site and hope its out there at the moment.

Briefly we moved to Vendee from Normandie and knew that there were old ceramic fuses here.  Had the circuits re-wired (two boards in two differing parts of the house) to trip switches.  Looks a great job local artisan well regarded (but what do I know if its a good job)

The EDF box is a black one with just one main trip on it.

Using Black and Decker paper steamer (French) let the water level go too low and the in-built trip switch cut in but our circuits did not go down but the EDF one did.  Replicated the scenario today and same happened.

Surely if a problem our trips go down first and not EDF. This must be dangerous.

Please can someone help and urgently please for I am now somewhat concerned.

I am not a diy guy so words of one syllable please!

 

kind regards

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Normally, the EDF cut-out is there to protect EDF's circuits from the house. It should trip only really if you have overloaded consumption, according to your specific abonnement.

That said, the fact that your individual MCB for the particular socket circuit did not trip first is worrying.

What has happened at the equipment end, is that as the water ran out, then the resistance coil (The Heating Element) in the tank has overheated and the trip is normally a self-resetting temperature detecting safety device. Most good equipment has them today.

Your wiring needs urgent checking by a competent certified electrician.

 

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Hi,

If your house was correctly wired to French normes then you should have at least one Interrupteur differentielle (ID), rated at 30 milliamps. This is to protect your wiring from earth leakage faults. It is difficult for anyone on this forum to ascertain what happened in your case without knowing your actual setup, but a possibility is that if you have no ID protection on your house circuits, then the EDF trip which is a Disjoncteur Differentielle (DD), rated at either 500ma or 600ma trip, has tripped due to an earth fault leakage, and not perhaps an overload?

Gluestick gives some sensible advice but he is not correct in saying  (quote) " Normally, the EDF cut-out is there to protect EDF's circuits from the house. It should trip only really if you have overloaded consumption, according to your specific abonnement." unquote.

Not quite the full story .....The EDF trip performs another very important function, that is of earth leakage protection as well as overcurrent protection. In my experience the main cause of earth leakage trips tripping out is always to do with water - kettle elements, washing machines, outside lights etc etc.

The only other reason for the EDF trip to have tripped is (as stated) is if you have exceeded your EDF abbonnement KW total . One last thing is that the old type black EDF type trips ( with red and green button ? ) tend to be quite temperemental . I often get the EDF to change them to the newer grey box type.

Take the sensible advice given by others and get it checked out anyway!

Best of luck [:)]

Paul.

 

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Correct, Paul. However if the device he was using has an earth leakage problem, surely it would cause the RCD to trip out as soon as it was plugged in, not only when it ran out of water, overheated and the thermal protection device cut it out of the circuit? I have some experience of these protection devices and the resettable type tend to cut one side of the device only; i.e. either the phase of the neutral: they have no path to earth.

Also, as you say again correctly, the circuit itself ought to be protected by an earth differential device within the tableaux, which would or in this case perhaps should trip prior to the EDF device?

Still, as we both say, impossible to diagnose remotely and needs a qualified electrician to check it out properly.

 

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A sincere big thank you to everyone who has truly helped.  We are slowly getting to the bottom of it but the electrician who has done the work is doing the French thing of sloping shoulders.  However have someone else coming tomorrow and our next door neighbour has suggested 30/300 m amp(?) avant le disjoncteur?

The original electrician was going to do some other work for us but we know France we know their system but this time I am going to vote with my feet he will not come into our house again for he is really not concerned. He may not be concerned for there is no problem but at least he should communicate?

Thanks again

 

best wishes

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Good morning the electrician who installed our new boards has just left looked at the power of the Black and Decker and to the best of my French we had a discussion which seemingly seem to suggest the following.

He said that his new boards with 30mla?

But the circuits in the house were three phase x 4kw but obviously then not 12kw per circuit but in total for the house.  Thus if the Black and Decker say was on the same circuit as the computer the washing machine or the dishwasher plus earth leakage he says that the circuits would drop?  I have done some research on him he has been here for over 30 years and has a very good reputation.

Please forgive me ignorance but in Normandy we had 12kw coming into the house and needed electric central heating as well and even when everything was needed at the same time no problems.

I am thinking that three phase is old-fashioned and that the wiring in the house needs to be changed for if so then a problem for we have just redecorated.

Naturally I would be so pleased to received your help and advice.

 

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for what it's worth, if we take too much power then the trip on the board goes (only usually happens if the tumble-drier is on and I'm using the big log-saw on a knotty bit!)

The main EDF has only tripped once, when there was a sleeve caught in the tumble-drier door which nearly killed it.
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Llwyncelyn.

I think you can guarantee that new boards fitted by an electrician will have a 30 milliamp earth leakage trip in them.

It does sound as if you have only 4kW per phase which is very likely to trip out the EDF supply long before any other overcurrent protection.

There are two simple remedies, get EDF to raise the power supply for which you will pay an increased annual charge This figure can be found very easily on the EDF website (and its in English) or do what many French do which is just live with it.

There is nothing  particulaly old fashioned about three phase and there are some of us who would get down on their knees and pray for such a supply.but it can cause practical difficulties. Punch wrote a full explantion of these problems in a very recent thread on 3phase..

bj

 

 

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Thanks bejay I do now understand and understand better.  EDF say 12kw spread over the circuits is the maximum but they will give me a quotation for increasing it to say either 15kw or 18kw.  Thus if its 18kw does that mean that the circuits would then have say 6kw per circuit? or 15kw 5kw per circuit

Again we are having a new kitchen installed and the company is giving us a plan de technique for the electrician.  He has been back and said when he does the work he will balance (equilbre) the system for us?

As I say a big thanks.

Llwyncelyn

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