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Anti-calcaire again !!!


expat paul
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We are in the process of obtaining devis for the replacement of our boiler and have asked for the supply and fitting of a anti-calcaire treatment unit to be included.
I have read with interest the various threads on the treatment of water, but am still a little confused as there are people for and against each method as follows :-

1. Adoucisseur/water softener unit :- works well but expensive and soft water not good for the heart.

2. Electric coils :-various degrees of success

3. The filter/cartouche method, this seems to be favorite with plumbers in our area and have been given prices ranging from 200 to 1000 euros.


Anybody care to comment whether good or bad ? please.


I have just done a "google" and found a large variation in price too, eg Leroy merlin do a duplex for 144E and Polar more like 750E, I know the saying 'you get what you pay for' but is it really 5 times as good

thanks

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[quote user="expat paul"]1. Adoucisseur/water softener unit :- works well but expensive and soft water not good for the heart.[/quote]

I can only comment on the water softener unit, as Mr Clair installed one in our old Sussex house.

The difference was immediate and amazing. No more dry itchy skin, no more hard towels, no need to use a tumble dryer to soften clothes, vastly reduced usage of soap, shampoo and washing powder.

The unit had a tank fitted inside a kitchen cupboard, and we used to top-up (not fill) with salt tablets every other week of so. The cost per bag was about £5, as far as I remember, but thats' going back to 2002...

As for it not being good for the heart, I don't know about that, as UK regs made it compulsory to leave a minimum if one cold water tap unsoftened and we used that to cook with. We used to have a Brita filter for drinking water.
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[quote user="Clair"]The difference was immediate and amazing. No more dry itchy skin, no more hard towels, no need to use a tumble dryer to soften clothes, vastly reduced usage of soap, shampoo and washing powder.

The unit had a tank fitted inside a kitchen cupboard, and we used to top-up (not fill) with salt tablets every other week of so. The cost per bag was about £5, as far as I remember, but thats' going back to 2002...

As for it not being good for the heart, I don't know about that, as UK regs made it compulsory to leave a minimum if one cold water tap unsoftened and we used that to cook with. We used to have a Brita filter for drinking water.[/quote]

We had an almost identical set-up in a very hard water region of Lincolnshire. I ordered the £4.75 (circa 2004) bags of tablets 5 at a time - as then they were delivered free - and those 5 used to last us about 10 months or so, IIRC. We would use an inordinate amount of water in that time.

Sue

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[quote user="spg"]We had an almost identical set-up in a very hard water region of Lincolnshire. I ordered the £4.75 (circa 2004) bags of tablets 5 at a time - as then they were delivered free - and those 5 used to last us about 10 months or so, IIRC. We would use an inordinate amount of water in that time.

Sue

[/quote]

Same with us and a bag would last a couple of months or so. As far as I was concerned, it was the best thing we did to that house! Tha water was incredibly hard were we were and It was a revelation to see how many bubbles we could get just from washing your hands!![:D]

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[quote user="Clair"]
As far as I was concerned, it was the best thing we did to that house! Tha water was incredibly hard were we were and It was a revelation to see how many bubbles we could get just from washing your hands!![:D] [/quote]

Agreed, money very well spent. Being a non-too-enthusiastic house cleaner the best thing I found was that the loo, baths and showers were so much quicker and easier to clean without all the heavy caked-on deposits normally associated with hard water.

Sue

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Hi,

When we moved in we didnt realise we had a water softener machine till someone pointed it out, it was unplugged and a huge bag of tablets where left behind, the previous owners never mentioned it use.

Is there any process, i.e. service, checks etc that will be required before i attempt to plug it in??????? As i have very hard water that leaves my tea gritty![+o(]

J

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Treating mains water is a matter of first of all knowing what one is supposed to be treating!

Your local water supplier can supply you with a current analysis.

The best approach for treating potable (i.e. drinking/cooking) water is a Reverse Osmosis Filter.

See the Screwfix site: www.screwfix.com

Treatment of water for central heating and drinking are thus two different matters.

Whilst one can buy (or make) filters with an absolute daisy chain of treatment filters, there is not much point if your are attempting to filter out something that isn't there in the first place!

The objective for central heating is to remove anything which over time and with heat will come out of solution in the water and deposit as a crystalline salt on and in the works.

 

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I have in my garage a blue cast iron box that holds salt cubes etc, and this is directly after the mains water coming in. This was in when we bought and the previous owner said to prevent calcaire building up change every 6 mnths or so, we have only noticed the deposits in the kettle for example building up recently so we have changed the salt tabs today. Hope that it clears up the problem, but till now our water tastes fine. Not much to look at and obviously cheap to use, no electricity, but it works, Hugh.

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[quote user="Gluestick"]

Treating mains water is a matter of first of all knowing what one is supposed to be treating!

Your local water supplier can supply you with a current analysis.

The best approach for treating potable (i.e. drinking/cooking) water is a Reverse Osmosis Filter.

See the Screwfix site: www.screwfix.com

Treatment of water for central heating and drinking are thus two different matters.

Whilst one can buy (or make) filters with an absolute daisy chain of treatment filters, there is not much point if your are attempting to filter out something that isn't there in the first place!

The objective for central heating is to remove anything which over time and with heat will come out of solution in the water and deposit as a crystalline salt on and in the works.

 

[/quote]

My objective is to protect the new boiler and to reduce the deposits in the kettle and shower head, not for the drinking water.

So, if I understand correctly, I must first ask the water company for an analysis, and then check if the filters will have any effect.

 

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[quote]

My objective is to protect the new boiler and to reduce the deposits in the kettle and shower head, not for the drinking water.

So, if I understand correctly, I must first ask the water company for an analysis, and then check if the filters will have any effect.

 

[/quote]

First you must think about what you want to achieve: according to your list, you would appear to have three objectives:

1.    The Sealed System for the central heating (CH):

This is filled on commissioning and should only require minimal topping up during service. The system should be filled with an anti-corrosion fluid before first firing. This will protect the boiler internals, the rads and the pipework.

That said, it is common to employ water filters on the mains water inlet. The analysis from your water company will predicate what is required.

2.    The Hot Water System:

The shower and indeed all DHW (Domestic Hot Water) is a separate system from the CH. This will normally be supplied either by a separate small tank and demand by the boiler or by a dedicated ballon which can be heated by the boiler or by electricity on cheap rate.

The incoming water can be filtered to reduce calcium deposition in pipework and taps, showers etc.

3.    Domestic Drinking (Potable) Water:

This requires multi-stage filtering to remove heavy metal salts, sediment (which makes water dull and prevents it "Sparkling"), and any other undesired chemical compounds in suspension: such as excessive nitrates. If your area is primarily arable agricultural, then the heavy usage of High Nitrogen fertiliser beloved by French farmers under CAP will have caused the water table to be contaminated.

Dependant on the geology, different strata can also cause fairly saturated solutions of various other metallic salts such as Magnesium, Alluminium (mainly clay soil), Sodium, Potassium etc.

The only really safe way to remove most undesired salts is Reverse Osmosis. This is a process where water under pressure "Osmotes" in molecular form through a permeable membrane. It is used on nuclear submarines and cruise liners, e.g. to provide potable water from sea water and in the field by the armed forces to provide supplies of potable water from brackish or unsafe local water.

If one is really paranoid, then the feedstock water is first run through a sediment filter; then the reverse osmosis filter and finally the treated water is irradiated by high frequency Ultra Violet Light to kill any bacteria!

If you simply want to prevent your kettle furring, then a simple in-line filter with a dedicated tap for potable water is ideal for kettles, cooking veggies and etc.

Most French people buy large (cheap) bottles of pure water at their supermarché to make coffee etc.

What you could do, of course, would be to install a "Whole of House" water treatment system where the mains comes in with the exception of a separate feed for the kitchen, taken off prior to the treatment system.

In the UK I have a Whole of House filter at the riser and a dedicated kitchen in-line filter with separate tap for drinking, cooking etc.

I plan to install a similar system in France once I attack the new kitchen.

At present it's large bottles of pure water from Champion!

[blink]

Look here:

http://www.screwfix.com/search.do;jsessionid=IHEMOC0DAI51KCSTHZOSFFA?_dyncharset=UTF-8&fh_search=Water+Treatment&action=movePage&fh_start_index=20

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Just a few more thoughts on this.

Filter come in all shapes and sizes: the main component is granulated charcoal; some use charcoal disks.

I was trying one a few years ago which used silver activated charcoal granules; this was very effective, but expensive to manufacture.

Others use plastic synthetics to filter particles.

Revese Osmosis filters which use only mains water pressure are not very effective, as the pressure isn't high enough. They can also be extremely wasteful, as up to 40% of feedstock water is dumped into the drain! Expensive!

Pumped pressure Osmosis is much more effective and achieves a far higher percentage of potable water from the feedstock.

Worth spending some time on the web searching: lots of info there!

 

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