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VIESSMANN Gas combi boiler question...


joidevie
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Hello everyone..

I have a simple(ish) question re. my new VEISSMANN VITOPEND 222 gas combi boiler. It powers both the wet central heating system and hot water supply, as well as having an integrated 40 litre hot water cylinder which is constantly kept ready for immediate use.

It has been mounted in the en-suite shower room to a main bedroom. It seems in order to keep the cylinder hot, the burners and pump will kick in every now and then to maintain the temperature.. Something that is a little annoying during sleeping hours. Is this type of boiler able to accept an external 'timer' to regulate the hours? (my Worcester Bosch in the UK does for example, but does not have this 'built in' ballon..) Is there a timer that anyone can suggest that would be appropriate? As far as I can see the only power supply to the boiler is a 10amp electrical circuit. The manual makes no mention of a timer.. Although the technician who set it up  briefly mentioned something about  the possibility of fitting a timer.. I found these via the .pdf 'brochure' for the boiler - links to Canadian sites for a controler.. But are these overkill? I've not found any prices yet either.. My timer in the UK is on/off off/on with hours only.  I'm a little bewildered right now.. Reading around there are outdoor temperature controlled versions, solar, ??

http://www.viessmann-us.com/web/canada/ca_publish.nsf/Content/Vitotronic-Regelungstechnik-Kleinkesselprogramm_ca_english http://www.viessmann-us.com/web/canada/ca_publish.nsf/Content/Vitotronic300_ca_english http://www.viessmann-us.com/web/canada/ca_publish.nsf/Content/Vitotronic-Comparison_ca_english

Thanks for any plain English suggestions - seems I can even regulate my boiler via the internet!

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OK, nice link, better than I have found so far.. Sure there is a regulator, but only for water/heating temperature and Summer/Winter settings...

.... Now, which one to go for and how much are they.. And can I fit a Viessmann one myself without invalidating any guarantees ot maintenance contracts - I've seen a 'new' as seen controler like this on Ebay/Belgium..

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You're right - worth the outlay. Suppose I've just been spending so much recently - so savings are always looked for.. I was going to sign a maintenance contract with a credited firm for annual service & breakdown cover, and they only begin to charge once the first callout is made, which I was hoping would be in 11 months time!

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The other thing which I forgot to mention earlier (one of those days!) is that in dealing with an accredited dealer, they will have all the correct software and interface connection to use a service laptop to both diagnose and adjust the system.

Comes to something these days when the plumber needs a degree in computer science!

[:)]

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I've been reading up on the diagnostic side of things, and seems a laptop is now required!

I guess I'm still a little doubtful if the Vitotronic 200 is not a little over specified.. As I'm mainly interested in the timer function. The boiler is in a small shower room which stays very warm and the whole weather sensor thing?? The layout of the  property is  such that fitting a thermostat anywhere  could confuse the  boiler (the main living area is very high ceiling and open plan, whereas the bedrooms & bathrooms are much smaller and easier to heat. The radiators all have individual thermostats as well..

I guess I'm wondering whether I need a €200 unit - the existing one is already excellent for temperature regulation... It just does not have the timer facility? (which d o e s surprise me). Would a third party switch be available, and where in whole set up would it be wired?

Thanks

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Modern state-of-the-art boilers and heating systems (and the boiler is treated as simply part of an holistic system) use a raft of detectors and control systems, which include not only room stats (more in a moment!) but also flow detectors in the pipework. Additionally, external detectors feed in data about ambient temperature, wind speed, direction, sun strength and etc.

Houses are normally "Zoned" too, with room stats for each zoned area: or even dedicated stats for each separate room!

The stats are also pretty complex and provide month by month adjustment.

Perhaps most important of all is these systems "Learn" and "Map" an optimum performance: very similar to the mapped performance data used by modern car ECUs and Engine Management Modules.

By the use of discrete motorised valving and data input, a single room or an area can be isolated when it becomes too hot: even open windows (for airing) can be detected!

Simply put, you could place a plug-in timer in the mains feed.

Or wire in anything from a basic programmer to a more complex programmer.

The problem you have, however, is finding precisely where to connect the various inputs on the programmer! Without causing internal damage or invalidating the warranty.

In the good old days, the programmer simply interrupted the power feed to the gas control valve: and the stat turned the circulating pump on or off.

A modern complex combi-type condensing boiler sadly, aint that simple! Ignition is fully electronic (no pilot light) and the system is enabled according to demand which can be on time periods selected or demand for either hot water or room heat or both.

Perhaps the manufacturers might be kind enough to provide circuit data: I very much doubt this however, since their equipment is designed as a fully integrated system (Systems Integration is the core of most advanced design these days).

Your first and critical port of call therefore is the manufacturer.

 

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Thanks Gluestick.. A good answer which helps a little! Seperate zones, detectors are all wonderful, but I dare say expensive, impractical (for me..) and maybe overkill for a barn like mine..

You are quite right though that it seems this boiler will require nurturing and above all, not switching off the mains power when I leave the place empty for a month at a time. The manual says that the motors will 'turn' occasionally even when the "power button is switched off for 'holidays'" - but obviously only if the mains are 'on'..

Shame the basic "Vittronic 100" is missing such a simple thing as a timer!

I am watching a "Vitronic 200" on Belgium Ebay which is 'new & unpacked' (not guaranteed, but looks to be kosher enough).. Which could save me loads.. But how to fit it ? It seems to simply replace the 100 which my plumber seemed to plug in to the boiler when he fitted it .. Although he is reluctant to touch the boiler now it has been 'comissioned' by the approved Veismann technicians.. (who never asked for the purchase reciept for the boiler it needs to be mentioned).. The boiler comissioning company did not charge for the initial setting up - and offer an annual service contract of €110 pa. Payable only after the first callout. I was hoping to sign the contract now, but not pay for say 11 months before the first 'annual' service is due.. I am genuinely trying to save here anything I can.. But maybe fitting a new controler (especially if bought at 'full cost') could be yet another cost to bear.. ?

Thanks

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  • 2 weeks later...
Thanks for all the replies. I've now bought the next regulator up from the standard one which I will have fitted soon. It will allow me to set times for both the heating and the hot water .

However, I've just been away for 2 weeks, and as per the boiler instructions I left the mains power ON and switched to boiler to standby only (ie heating & hot water OFF, but standby power ON). The boiler seems to continue to 'run' in this mode - ie. it is constatnly running the fan (I think). The instructions implied leaving the boiler on standby would allow the motors to run 'occasionally' to avoid seizing etc. But running constatntly?? Does this seem right? This also disarms my plans to add a timer switch as it would seem even if the hot & heating are OFF (via the timer say) I'll still be left with the noise from the boiler during the night?

My guess is that adding a timer to the main power circuit (ie to switch all power OFF to the boiler over night) would not be recommended? Any suggestions?

Many thanks.

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As has already been suggested by the wise

Gluestick, ring Viessmann UK technical dept.  I have spoken to them 3 times recently and found them extremely helpful. One thing though, the product must be available in the UK for them to provide support and info, it seems not all are, for example the internet/telephone control isn't.

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Sound advice from Paul.

Ring the manufacturers or perhaps email their German HQ.

The fan running constantly is not right.

BTW: Once the uprated control is fitted, the whole process of progamme control should be autonomous. Important to keep this live as otherwise the emergency stand by battery will deplete.

 

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Well, my German didn't let me down and after a few conversations with central office, they duly called me back with a 'talk through' re-programing of the controler (something I could NEVER have done myself, nor available in the user manual) and it seems the initial settings were incorrectly entered (by the French technician?). Now, no noise (it was the circulation pump) unless the unit is actually in use or an anti freeze cycle is performed..

Very happy bunny indeed. Those Germans eh.. Rather a BMW than a Ford Escort..

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