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Notaire - compromis


ponot
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Salut,

Just in process of selling our property in the Loire and the Notaire has asked for several hunderd Euros from our purchaser to cover the cost of preparing the compromis. Is this normal as, after 15yrs. in France and buying and selling several properties, I have never heard of this before. Is this normal?

Merci
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Perfectly normal to ask for a percentage of the property price up front.  I don't think it's purely for preparing the compromis, as you have stated.

Usually the notaire's fee, taxes and agent's fee if applicable are all taken at the end of the sale at the time of the signing of the acte authentique.

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[quote user="ponot"]

Just in process of selling our property in the Loire and the Notaire has asked for several hunderd Euros from our purchaser to cover the cost of preparing the compromis.[/quote]

Seems to be perfectly normal these days. Even though we knew our notaire slightly before buying our house 3 years ago we were asked for a small deposit against costs 'just in case'. It was taken off the final bill when the sale went ahead.

We also paid a few thousand deposit, as can sometimes be required; this was used to pay the agent immo on the day of signing the acte de vente.

Sue

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Yes, as I said, I'm not exactly inexperienced in buying and selling French property and I'm perfectly aware that you normally pay everything including tax, notaires fees etc. at the actual signing of the acte. but one reply confirms this and the other says that it is perfectly normal for a notaire to take a deposit but not for the compromis. Problem is that our buyer was specifically told that it was for the compromis to be prepared. So it's not much clearer really!
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[quote user="ponot"] Problem is that our buyer was specifically told that it was for the compromis to be prepared. So it's not much clearer really![/quote]

As I said it can happen these days especially if the buyer is not known to the notaire or has no history of buying in France - as was our case.

It is labelled as : reçu accompte sur provision frais vente ... on our final bill.

Make of it what you will.

Sue

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There was a time when a deposit of 10% of the purchase price non-refundable if the buyer dropped out for unjustified reasons was demanded.

With my two last purchases that was no longer needed, so the Notaire simply asked for his own fee (the cost of preparing the compromis), so he would be sure to get it if I dropped out.

He didn't seem to give a t*ss about whether the seller got anything...

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Our buyer was asked by the agent without discussing it with us for a 5% deposit. We weren't happy with this and asked for a 10% deposit. I think this is the norm in our area. We would not feel comfortable making plans and incurring expenses if the buyer can pull out without any penalty or commitment.
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The buyer can't pull out...officially.

The 10% deposit is forfeit if there is no clause covering the reason for not proceeding.

But in a depressed market buyers might be put off if the deposit is insisted upon, so the practice of not bothering to ask for it (especially if it is a small sum as mine would have been) has crept in.

BUT cynically the Notaire ensures his own fee by asking for that even if the deposit is waived.

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That makes sense Norman. But we would have rather put someone off versus incurring lots of expenses and packing everything, selling things etc.. worrying that the buyer could pull out without any sort of commitment on their part.
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With Sue in Morbihan on this one: yes, IME, it can/does happen. It's simply the notaire being careful to cover his/her loss in case the buyer pulls out before signing the compromis. And given the work that can go into the preparation of a compromis these days, I s'pose it's not unreasonable - there's no reason why the notaire should be out of pocket due to a flaky potential buyer.

It might just be worth making the point that all notaires' charges are set centrally by the state, i.e. they don't have the ability to charge what they like.

Go http://www.notaires.fr/fr/le-tarif-du-notaire

So, if you think you are being charged for something which you shouldn't be; or if you think you are being charged an excessive amount, you simply ask for a justification by reference to the "Décret(s) portant fixation du tarif des notaires". Something which has happened to us once in c. 10 purchases and sales.

It might also be worth pointing out that c.80% of the so-called frais de notaires are in fact local and state taxes. Of the remaining 20%, half is the notaire's administration costs, leaving the other half for his/her fees.
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[quote user="NormanH"]The 10% deposit is forfeit if there is no clause covering the reason for not proceeding.[/quote]The only way it's forfeit is if the buyer agrees to it or it's ordered by a court, some sellers still have the quaint notion that a buyer dropping out without reason or out with the clauses in the compromis automatically means they get the deposit - dream on !

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[quote user="AnOther"][quote user="NormanH"]The 10% deposit is forfeit if there is no clause covering the reason for not proceeding.[/quote]The only way it's forfeit is if the buyer agrees to it or it's ordered by a court, some sellers still have the quaint notion that a buyer dropping out without reason or out with the clauses in the compromis automatically means they get the deposit - dream on !

[/quote]

That is exactly what our Notaire told us. After signing the compromis there is a ten day cooling off period (this is new until recently it was seven). There is a deadline of the day after the ten days to send the deposit to the Notaire, if after this period the buyer pulls out they lose this deposit.

I presume perhaps the Notaire fees and perhaps taxes (I have no idea) would be taken from the deposit but this is then given to the seller. By the way, the seller doesn't have this cooling off period and I am told is committed the day of signing the compromis and would have to pay the agreed percentage deposit if they back out. This works just like an exchange in the UK.
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There are two things getting mixed up here.

1) is the official way of doing things which is exactly as has been described. I don't argue with the facts.

2) is what can happen 'on the ground' where the buyer pulls out and the seller should be entitled to the 10%, but of course being entitled to it  and getting it are two very different things.

As ANO has said it could come to a court case, unless the buyer is soft enough to pay  up without a fuss. Of course the seller is in the right, and should win, but even if the case is won there is still the matter of getting the money out of the other party. I won a case over a car I bought that turned out to be dangerously un-roadworthy, but though I won with costs the seller just declared himself insolvent and thus unable to pay me back, so I lost the money, the vehicle, and had the legal  and huissier's fees to pay for my 'victory'.

Notaires have seen all this before and just make sure their own fees are covered.

If you are selling don't let this worry you unduly, as the great majority of sales aren't like this, but don't let anyone tell you that it is cut and dried either...

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  • 1 month later...
What is called "Frais de Notaire" Solictors fee I supose in English is a carefully calculated amount set on a specific method of calculation laid down by the Government and mostly covers stamp duty and land transfer taxes.

The method of calculation and when it is due can been found on http://www.calcul-frais-de-notaire.fr/

Normally I believe if you buy through the Notaire and not through an agency he will ask a fee for preparing the Compromis.

Generally speaking Agents ask the buyers how much they can afford to put down as a deposit and accept that.

If the sale doesn't go through then no matter how much the deposit you still have to sue for damages and prove a prejudice. Which in French courts might be a little difficult for a foreigner buying a second home.
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