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Retiring to France


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We are both in our mid 60's and thinking of retiring to France a.s.a.p. (as soon as our house is sold!!).  We shall not have any mortgage to worry about but we would not want to have to draw on our capital, would an income of approx £18k cover living expences, top up insurance, taxes, etc.?

Our prefered area is Saumur, anyone out there who can offer tips ref. good areas for wrinkly brits to live in. [:)]

Proximity to doctors is important and my husband requires regular visits as he is insulin dependant diabetic.

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Jemima

Your plan sounds good. If you look at all the information on this forum there is a wealth of wisdom to draw from. As the army says 'time spent in reconnaisence is never wasted' (usually said when lost). The accepted wisdom is to have a long rental before making the plunge. The Loire landscape looks aweful cold in January!

The most important thing is how well do you speak the language? Leaving friends and family (+ all kinds of support groups) in the UK means that no matter the lovely house you live in and how great the area is - you may well end-up feeling very isolated if you cannot have a decent conversation with your new friends.

Earning an income of £18k is no small undertaking, this forum has many experienced B&B owners and gite owners who would be pretty pleased to end-up with this kind of income after all their operating costs have been deducted.

Most of us on this forum have had versions of your idea and few seem to have regretted it - but you will need your eyes wide open and without rose-tinted glasses.

Bon chance!

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Renaud,

I may be wrong but I read the post as meaning that the OP would have an income of 18k pounds unearned, ie possibly from investments.

Would 27k Euro be sufficient without a mortgage? There are posters on this forum with considerably less, no doubt some with considerably more also. IMHO it would give a comfortable standard of living......but, I have no idea how the tax on unearned income works.

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Others know more about the ins and outs of this than me and so much depends on the source of your income etc., but my own personal findings are that : income tax is less (mainly because your income is divided 50/50 between the two of you so whereas one might have been in a higher tax bracket, in France you'd get taxed as though each of you earns 9k) but health payments are higher and they roughly balance one another out. In general, we've found it costs roughly the same to live here as in the UK - some things are cheaper, some more expensive.  How long is a piece of string...  If you think you can live on 18k in the UK then you probably can here.  More important to ask yourselves what you'd do all day.

Maybe try renting for a while first, as Renaud suggests?

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We will have a pension between us of about £32k (at present day levels and a few years off at the moment), but feel we may have to sell our holiday home, as the cost of keeping two homes going on that sum, may not be possible. We don't want to live in France full time, due to family reasons. I'm not looking forward to selling a house that we have put a lot of work into, but I'd rather have decent standard of living and one home than scrimp and save to keep both going. You never know, I might win the lottery. :-)
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[quote user="Jemima"]

thinking of retiring to France a.s.a.p. (as soon as our house is sold!!).  [/quote]

Fine - £18k income is more than enough

BUT:

You've sold your house in UK, bought a lovely place in France, but after x number of years you need/want to return to UK, and you suddenly find that french property prices have moved slowly, but the increase in UK prices means that you are reduced to a box on an estate! Try & hang on to property in the UK if you can.

Peter

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From the post above: "We will have a pension between us of about £32k (at present day levels and a few years off at the moment), but feel we may have to sell our holiday home, as the cost of keeping two homes going on that sum, may not be possible."

This goes some way to explaining why those asking whether they can live in France on an income of  xx..? can never get a proper answer - it all depends on how you spend it!

I don't think I'm a miser, but I plan to retire soon, keep a UK house and a French one, run 2 cars and live on rather less than that. I do tend to use rather a lot of glue and sticking tape at home though, service the cars myself and, when we've forgotten the flask, treat her indoors to the very occasional coffee on Speed One - on the cheapest crossing naturally.

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Hi NR, I know 32k sounds alot, but I don't want to be doing all my own DIY work as I get into my 60's. I want enough money to pay people to do stuff rather than me spend a lot of time on painting, decorating, etc.and for thast reason, the upkeep of two properties may eat into our pensions. We will probably see if it is possible to keep both, but if not we would sell the French home and live in the UK near our children and grandchildren. I will have worked for more than 40 years and want my retirement to be totally enjoyable and not have to worry about affording luxuries. You are obviously happy living a simple life in France, but everybody is different and that style of life is not for us. :-)

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[quote user="Captain Trips"]Hi NR, I know 32k sounds alot, but I don't want to be doing all my own DIY work as I get into my 60's. I want enough money to pay people to do stuff rather than me spend a lot of time on painting, decorating, etc.and for thast reason, the upkeep of two properties may eat into our pensions. We will probably see if it is possible to keep both, but if not we would sell the French home and live in the UK near our children and grandchildren. I will have worked for more than 40 years and want my retirement to be totally enjoyable and not have to worry about affording luxuries. You are obviously happy living a simple life in France, but everybody is different and that style of life is not for us. :-)
[/quote]

So what do you plan to do all day? Just curious![8-)]

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Captain Trips , you still have a few years yet , id wait to see how things go before having to give up your french house , have you considered other options? eg selling half the property and share 6 months eachs or selling as a time share selling off months to different people. or renting out . I have the oppersite problem to you I want to live in france but dont want to have no property here , but at the same time am worring about the bills of keeping a place here which will take a good bite out of our income . So we are investing in a 2 bedroom flat with my brother who also wants to retire to his house in france and keep a place here. This lightens the load quite a bit but gives us a bit of sercurity back here if needed.  
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Here I will just keep off the monetary subject.  But would continue to stress what I am now finding a problem.  Having had a very busy professional life and being possessed of the work ethic a scenario drummed into the four brothers by our late Father I am now finding retirement or semi-retirement a huge problem here in France.

I do not play golf loved cricket but my life was somewhat sorry to say taken up with and by the law.  My French is not good enough to work in the law here (even if they would entertain the thought of someone coming into their patch)

Thus there is only so many times one can tidy the garden and cut the lawns as is the case with lunching out!

And unless you are careful the lure of red wine can equally get to you and fortunately and whilst I love red wine its with moderation.

We keep a home in the UK and if I went back today I could pick up briefs (work) tomorrow but do I want to.  On the brightest days no on other days yes.  And this is not weather driven.

My brother in the UK has just celebrated his 80th birthday and still works part time.  He does not need the cash but what he says he needs is to feel that he is needed and what he earns keeps him from eating into his capital.

Again location location location is important as is the concept of lots of land.

All of the above have been rehearsed many times before on this forum.

It is entirely a personal judgment (spelt the legal way) and I think I will be moving back within the next two years or so.  Have loved it here in France but isolation is a problem.

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I absolutely agree that if you plan to 'retire' to France you must have something to do. I live in a busy holiday resort that apart from a couple of months in the summer is extremely quiet. The only time I got really depressed is when I encountered the hundredth elderly couple walking their dog along the seafront and looking totally bored with each other.

Although I sill work in the property business, before leaving the UK I did a three year counselling course, as it was something I wanted to do in my 'retirement'. At the time I expected to stay in London but a change of ownership resulted in the rent of my apartment going up 350 per cent and I had to find an alternative plan. I arrived in France almost by accident and then discovered all the problems surrounding part time work within the French system.

Frustrated that I cannot use my hard earned counselling skills I am instead setting up a charity under French law to provide group sessions for pre-retirees, people who have lost their job, people in mid-life crisis or facing life transitions, partly to have something worthwhile to do and also to contribute something to the community. Fortunately my French is good enough and I have the solid support of trusted friends around to help me.

As I am sure others have discovered, retirement is not a 20 or 30 year holiday but can be an opportunity to explore new avenues, and this you can do in France with a bit of manoeuvring and adapting to the system.

P-D de Rouffignac

 

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Llwyncelyn: you remind me of my father who was also a lawyer (solicitor.) He and Mum retired to the Northumbria countryside when he was 60 and he was bored out of his mind . He did drive into the office 2 or 3 times a week for ten years or so, then just vegetated and drank to pass the time. He lived to 84 though. I have to make a positive effort to keep busy. I do some studying, play the piano, walk etc. But I do feel isolated sometimes, more than husband does. I think that's why I spend so much time online, reading forums. If our children weren't scattered all over the world I think I'd be wanting to return soon. Pat.
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Llwyncelyn: The accepted advice to those buying in France is - if in doubt, seek legal advice.

Could you not advertise your UK exptise as a solicitor allied to your undoubted knowledge of the cultural problems that Brits encounter when buying in France. Get a website up explaining your services and contact immobiliers around France and suggest that they give your details to their clients who need help.

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You have been given sound advice from the forum contributors.

You could live reasonably comfortably on £18,000, but not extravagantly.  There is a rural/urban equation to be considered which can affect qulity of life and cost of living. 

France is now on a par with most UK costs, as someone said the cheaper compared with the more expensive, balances things out.

However, as someone has already intimated, and I would strongly advise, do not burn your bridges.  We had enjoyable French holidays over a 30 year period, but it is not at all the same as living amongst the French.  France is not Nirvanha, and I am not at all trying to be negative when I say this.  I am simply being honest.

I would strongly advise you to rent for at least the first year to fully experience French living.  You can rent quite cheaply in France in most areas.  Alternatively consider trading down and going 50/50, and have the best of both worlds when you feel like it.  As with most moves to another country it takes about 2 years to really settle in and decide if it is for you.  As an alternative I would also consider renting out your UK home for a year and using the proceeds to rent in France.  This would give you the opportunity to really get the taste of France without the risk.

You are also in the age group that should carefully consider what would you do if you were eventually on your own in France.  This is something that has to be faced up to.

I know that you probably want to launch yourself into your new life without wasting time, and have an image or dream of what it will be like, but pause and reflect on some of the points that have been made, very carefully.

 

 

 

 

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