VMC - Continuous running

[Alan Zoff]

If it's a carbon monoxide issue, that will apply only when fuel is being burnt. I don't tend to cook much when I'm asleep or the house is unoccupied.

[Nick Trollope]

As le P predicted, there is always someone who thinks they know better, but they can only express themselves with sarcasm.

VMCs are a mandatory part of French life, rather like wine and poor driving. If you don't want to integrate to this extent, do you think rest of us want to learn about it? I don't.

[Alan Zoff]

I have a VMC. I think it's a good idea. What I wondered was whether it was necessary to have it running continuously. I have valued the responses I have received.

I think I have also integrated well with the local community and doubt that switching off an appliance (which many of the local houses don't even possess) is going to alienate me from my French neighbours.

Many of the men here (but thankfully not too many of the women) have impressive moustaches. I feel no great need to emulate them in order to integrate. (The avatar displays a French friend.)

 

[Le Plombier]

The old houses with no VMC do not need them, if they have gas there will be, in the KItchen, two vents direct to outside, both 125mm diameter

This performs the same function to provide air to dilute combustion products and dilute any gas leakage

You can't switch that one off

If you ever sell your house put the VMC back to normal operation before you leave or your purchaser might be in trouble if he uses gas, in which case it is you that will be arrested

If you want a house to UK standards go and live in the UK

Most French stardards are more onorous but provide a better standard of safety than the UK

Over 300 people die in Franch every year due to this kind of issue

The main issue on this forum is opinion, there is very little informed fact by those that know

You asked a question, you got the real answer, you don't want a VMC in a modern French house then go back to the UK or move on to another country

As an aside what do your bathrooms smell like without the VMC running

LePlombier

[Monika]

Le Plombier, we never have our VMC running because in the otherwise wonderfully quiet location, when "one" is in the toilet or the bathroom it feels like we live next to a motorway and the constant "humming"  is irritating! (we don't have gas)

However being on the subject of bathrooms our "group de security" (is that what the tap beneath the ballon is called?) had to be replaced (because a continous stream of water was escaping), and the plumber said it had deteriorated badly (in two years!) with calcaire, this in a very soft water area. Could you tell me dear Le Plombier or any other knowledgeable person, why this happened and what we can do to avoid it (the house is a holiday home and quite often unoccupied for several weeks). (It's not because we don't have our VMC switched on?) Thank you. And sorry for hijacking the thread.  

[Alan Zoff]

I really don't understand why some people are getting so uptight about this.

As I have said several times, I do HAVE a VMC. It is on whenever there is something being used in the house.

And yet someone wants me to return to the UK because I choose not to turn on the appliance when it is not doing anything useful. Hmmm. Now should I spend much time worrying about that one?

I don't know if Allier is different from other regions of France but I am fortunate in that the people here seem very open-minded. I try to fit in where it seems sensible to do so and the locals seem to respect that. But really they couldn't give a toss. I am just another person, which is how it should be. They know I am not French and don't expect me to be. They don't force their opinions and habits on me and vice versa. They seem pleased to have my company and I enjoy theirs. Which is good enough for me.

[PaulT]

Mmm, the notion of either returning to the UK or staying in the UK because you question certain things in France.

Seems to me that if you stay in the UK you will need to conform to certain minority ways of life.

We have a VMC in our MS (one for Ernie - maison secondaire [:D]) and we turn it off when we are not there. The VMC was installed when we bought the property - interestingly it does not seem to be connected to the vent in the kitchen where, at present, there is a gas hob. At present, it does not vent to the outside but in to the roof space but, as the French do not use felt, that is fairly well vented.

I suppose when you think about it the VMC causes air changes. Without air changes then the level of oxygen in the air will fall which is not a good state of affairs.

As for French electrics I think they have a superb regulation, that being that rewiring must be capable of being carried out without hacking plaster off etc.

Paul

[jondeau]

It never ceases to surprise me just how many people on this site seem to regard it as a personal insult should some person disagree with their opinion.

Surely, if somebody writes something you disagree with, you are under no obligation to reply and thus avoid the need to 'feel sick of answering this question'

I have never lived in a modern house in France so the question of noisy ventilators has never come up for me. However, having spent a lifetime in the gas/heating industry, all I can say is there must be some pretty inept gas fitters in France if you need to have an extractor running 24/7 in order to ensure safety.

 

Monika: the groupe de securite would not be affected in any way by the extractor.

 

 

[Jonzjob]

I hate to think what the situation would be for us if we had to rely on the VMC if we had a gas leak. Our ceilings are 10 feet high and we are on propane ...[blink]

 

[Nick Trollope]

[quote user="jondeau"]

all I can say is there must be some pretty inept gas fitters in France if you need to have an extractor running 24/7 in order to ensure safety.

 [/quote]

It is not a matter of competence, it is a matter of regulation. The other side to this coin is; If you don't want to conform to/can't be bothered check up on/don't care a f*** about the normes, why bother to tell us? It wasn't the OPs question, so how is it relevant?

[BJSLIV]

And in any case the VMC is not there to deal with gas leaks but the fumes produced by using the gas. That said I still think that the main reason for the VMC is not tyhe dispersal of these fumes but the continuous movement of air to avoid condensation problems.

If the thing runs all year for £10 /£15 quids worth of electric, then I think its money well spent.

 

 

[jondeau]

QUOTE

It is not a matter of competence, it is a matter of regulation. The other side to this coin is; If you don't want to conform to/can't be bothered check up on/don't care a f*** about the normes, why bother to tell us? It wasn't the OPs question, so how is it relevant?

 

 

Well........it's called democracy, and this is an example of democracy in action where the populace debate the laws passed by the legislature in order to understand their reasoning and their validity.

There is nothing more fataly wounding to democracy than complacency and blind adherence to the law.

[sid]

[quote user="Le Plombier"]

If you ever sell your house put the VMC back to normal operation before you leave or your purchaser might be in trouble if he uses gas, in which case it is you that will be arrested

[/quote]  (my block/italic letters)

Surely this is overstating the case? Who exactly is going to do the monitoring and arresting for transgressions (if indeed they illegalities) like this? I just don't understand how you could live in an old house with exactly the same appliances and rooms and therefore not be "arrested"! Are we getting confused with "standards" and "laws"?

Please correct me but isn't VMC simply mechanical ventilation (for condensation and smells) and nothing to do with gas? Don't rooms with gas have to have their own ventilation? And isn't the answer to continuous running to fit a switch which monitors the humidity? That would keep an unoccupied house aired over the winter.

Sid

 

[Danny]

 Sid,

as far as I understand it...

A VMC unit can be used for any ventilation purpose -extacting damp air, smells etc. It is just a fan unit/system.

BUT In some houses, if there are gas appliances, it is used as a means of ventilating the house to avoid any build up of fumes from the combustion. In this case, if there is no other means of ventilation, i.e.big holes, it should be on all the time and the switch makes the fan from low to high power.

Danny

[WJT]

Is it worth putting a VMC in an old stone property for ventilation?

Having said that, it would be impossible to convince my husband that it is a good idea to leave the electrics on when the house is vacant because he is a real worrier with things like that but perhaps it would be good for when we are in the house.

[Alan Zoff]

In our case, the VMC is principally to remove smells from the smallest rooms and the kitchen. We didn't/don't have a condensation problem and the gas (cylinder) cooker has separate ventilation.

If I want additional ventilation in general, I open a window. If I was leaving the house unoccupied for any length of time and worried about lack of ventilation, opening the loft hatch would soon provide plenty of exposure to the elements. (I have been toying, though, with the idea of relaying the roof to include a membrane under the tiles. I hope such sacrilege will not result in my instant deportation.) 

[WJT]

[quote user="Alan Zoff"]

In our case, the VMC is principally to remove smells from the smallest rooms and the kitchen. We didn't/don't have a condensation problem and the gas (cylinder) cooker has separate ventilation.

If I want additional ventilation in general, I open a window. If I was leaving the house unoccupied for any length of time and worried about lack of ventilation, opening the loft hatch would soon provide plenty of exposure to the elements. (I have been toying, though, with the idea of relaying the roof to include a membrane under the tiles. I hope such sacrilege will not result in my instant deportation.) 

[/quote]

[:D]

We are about to have the same, some of the foil backed insulation under the roof tiles when we have a new roof put on in November. That is if the roofer decides to do the work as he said he was, at the moment he is not returning my calls.[:(][:@]

This was one of the reasons I asked though because I thought with having a new roof put on it may be a good time to put one in.

[sid]

Danny

Yes, that sounds fine, just what I'd expect. For gas regulations could you rely on VMC alone? What happens if there's a power cut? And could I be arrested for turning it off? Surely the prisons would be full of woeful offenders who disconnected their VMCs, or to take another example, didn't have their 'neutre' wired with blue cable, or one of the other million 'normes'. It's just not going to happen is it? The French seem to take a much more pragmatic approach to rules and regulations.

A VMC has been suggested previously to solve the problem of damp and the musty smell when a property is left empty for the winter. We don't have one (VMC) but I would be worried, like one of the original posters, about losing (wasting) heat as well as removing the damp air. As far as I understand they only consume around 6 or 8 watts, so would be an economical solution for the empty property.

Sid 

[Danny]

[quote user="sid"]

Danny

Yes, that sounds fine, just what I'd expect. For gas regulations could you rely on VMC alone? [/quote]

That's just what we have here

[quote user="sid"]

What happens if there's a power cut? And could I be arrested for turning it off? Surely the prisons would be full of woeful offenders who disconnected their VMCs, or to take another example, didn't have their 'neutre' wired with blue cable, or one of the other million 'normes'. It's just not going to happen is it? The French seem to take a much more pragmatic approach to rules and regulations.[/quote]

Maybe one of the (other) artisans could answer that point better. It would seem safer to just have some holes in the wall. Of course, the major lesson to be learnt for any aspiring integrator in France is to find out all the rules and regs and then ignore them. Maybe that is just ahead of lesson number 2: having a pee virtually anywhere - even (or maybe especially) against the wall of the public toilets.

[quote user="sid"]As far as I understand they only consume around 6 or 8 watts, so would be an economical solution for the empty property

[/quote] I think ours is 11 watt on low power and a lot more on high.

Danny

[sid]

[quote user="Jane and Danny"]

It would seem safer to just have some holes in the wall.  [;-)] [;-)]

... lesson number 2: having a pee virtually anywhere - even (or maybe especially) against the wall of the public toilets.  [:D] [:D]

[/quote]

Sid

[:D] [:D]

[La Guerriere]

Gosh, who would have thought a simple topic like this would cause so much ventilation ![:)]

[Alan Zoff]

It's a funny old monde.

[suein56]

[quote user="WJT"]That is if the roofer decides to do the work as he said he was, at the moment he is not returning my calls.[:(][:@] [/quote]

He is probably on holiday like most of the French population at the moment ... a good proportion of whom seem to be here in the area where we live ...

Re VMC ours runs continuously and I have no problem with that as it is virtually silent and seems to do a good job. Two lots of French friends do not use their VMCs - not through having switched them off, just that the motors have failed over time and have not been replaced/repaired. So in the first house the kitchen has the most odd, lingering smell of many cooked meals, a smell which doesn't go away even when the window is opened. In the 2nd house the downstairs shower-room always smells very fusty, as though it is not clean, but I know that it is; the lady of the house complains she cannot get rid of the smell, and that the drains have been checked and are fine... Both houses are approx 10 to 12 years old.

Sue

 

 

[Nearly Retired (I am now)]

WJT said:

"Is it worth putting a VMC in an old stone property for ventilation?

Having said that, it would be impossible to convince my husband that it is a good idea to leave the electrics on when the house is vacant because he is a real worrier with things like that but perhaps it would be good for when we are in the house."

We have the same concerns and have put vents into the glass leaving them open and the shutters shut when we go away. That seems to work OK.

I'm working (well - thinking a lot anyway) on a solar powered VMC system so we could have a fan whirring around with the electricity turned off. I'll have the scheme cracked in a year or two and I'll get back to you then.

 

 

[Nick Trollope]

[quote user="sid"]

Please correct me but isn't VMC simply mechanical ventilation (for condensation and smells) and nothing to do with gas?

[/quote]

As a matter of fact, it is a legal requirement for all properties with a natural gas supply to be fitted with a continuously-running extraction system. Ergo, if one isn't fitted, someone is breaking the law. I don't know if you can be arrested for not having one (I've never been/put any of my clients in this situation), but a gas installer will be fined and could lose his certification, if caught.

Properties with gas must also have ventilation (98Sq cm, IIRC).

This is democracy - someone votes for a politician, who makes the laws that we (or they) want and are reasonably expected to adhere to. However, "people" don't want democracy, which usually just interferes with their "getting on with life". People want anarchy - even if they don't realise it.