Jump to content

Wiring an english light fitting in France


sueyh
 Share

Recommended Posts

I have just taken down a light fitting in my kitchen and have discovered that only two wires went to it (a blue and a black but no earth). The new light fitting has a place for an earth wire and says that it should be earthed. HELP what should I do. House was rewired four years ago.

Suey's other half

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Suey's other half,

You have two choices, you probably won't like either of them but don't blame me.

1. Don't install it without an earth lead, find another fitting.

2. have an electrian install an earth lead for you. It should not be too hard as the conduit (gaine) should already be there and with good luck they will be able to feed the earth lead through.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="BIG MAC"]Does an insulated earth need to run in gaine in the first place?[/quote]

Of course not, that would probably be the easiest or quickest route for it back to a suitable earthing point though, don't you think?

Bearing in mind we have not seen the installation but are just discussing the options. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If the wires have actually been run in modern gaine it is likely the earth maybe lurking there somewhere, just inside the ceiling, since, generally you would always pull 3 wires to a light fitting, just in case a metal fitting is used.

 

If they are in gaine, but only the two wires, it will be virtually impossible to pull an earth through it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="tj"]
If the wires have actually been run in modern gaine it is likely the earth maybe lurking there somewhere, just inside the ceiling, since, generally you would always pull 3 wires to a light fitting, just in case a metal fitting is used.
 
If they are in gaine, but only the two wires, it will be virtually impossible to pull an earth through it.
[/quote]

One should never try to pull in another wire with existing wires already in situe, as it just burns the insulation off of the existing wires. If the gaine that feeds the light goes to a local junction box that you can locate, then it is normal practice to pull out the existing two wires ( attach a dra wire first !), and then pull in three new wires ( phase neutral and earth).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="Mutiara"]

[quote user="tj"]

If the wires have actually been run in modern gaine it is likely the earth maybe lurking there somewhere, just inside the ceiling, since, generally you would always pull 3 wires to a light fitting, just in case a metal fitting is used.

 

If they are in gaine, but only the two wires, it will be virtually impossible to pull an earth through it.

[/quote]

One should never try to pull in another wire with existing wires already in situe, as it just burns the insulation off of the existing wires. If the gaine that feeds the light goes to a local junction box that you can locate, then it is normal practice to pull out the existing two wires ( attach a dra wire first !), and then pull in three new wires ( phase neutral and earth).

[/quote]

I didnt suggest pulling a single earth?

If the junction box is a few feet away ( unlikely ) and in a straight line from the fitting ( unlikely ) its still more than unlikely you can pull the new wires thru even with a draw wire which you will find difficult to pull thru in the first place !

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The point being whether or not the light fitting needs an earth, if plastic or wood then probably not,
the simplest thing is find or to talk someone who can point out a modern fitting that does not have / need an earth;
but you have to ask why an earth was not fitted 4 years ago? and what standard has been used in the rewire [8-)]
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Burn off the insulation when pulling an earth cable? Eh? How much energy would you need to do that? Have you tried to start a fire with 2 PVC sticks?

No, it is easy to pull wires through gaine - after all, that is exactly how it is designed. If there is no earth cable in the gaine, push a "tire fil" (available from Bricodepot for about 10€) - use a lubricant (washing-up liquid eg.) if you wish, attach the G/Y wire and pull back - gently, or you may burn the cable and set fire to your house.....

It is done all the time, I can assure you....

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="tj"]If they are in gaine, but only the two wires, it will be virtually impossible to pull an earth through it.[/quote]

What are you talking about ?

Why on earth (sic) wouldn't you be able to thread a 'tire fil' and subsequently draw a new core through a gain of 20mm dia or larger with only two 1.5 or 2.5mm cables in it ?

[quote user="Mutiara"]One should never try to pull in another wire with existing

wires already in situe, as it just burns the insulation off of the

existing wires. If the gaine that feeds the light goes to a local

junction box that you can locate, then it is normal practice to pull

out the existing two wires ( attach a dra wire first !), and then pull

in three new wires ( phase neutral and earth).[/quote]With respect, balderdash !

A 'tire fil' is at least twice the diameter of most normal domestic cable cores and I have often threaded one to a length of several meters and if it goes through the gaine why wouldn't it happily and safely draw in a new wire attached to it. It's the whole point of gaine and one of the few good things I can find to say about French electrics.

It might be normal practice for you but I suspect you'd be in a very tiny minority [:'(]

Tire fil

[img]http://www.usinenouvelle.com/expo/img/tire-fil-nylon-m-000048588-4.jpg[/img]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="Nick Trollope"]

Burn off the insulation when pulling an earth cable? Eh? How much energy would you need to do that? Have you tried to start a fire with 2 PVC sticks?

No, it is easy to pull wires through gaine - after all, that is exactly how it is designed. If there is no earth cable in the gaine, push a "tire fil" (available from Bricodepot for about 10€) - use a lubricant (washing-up liquid eg.) if you wish, attach the G/Y wire and pull back - gently, or you may burn the cable and set fire to your house.....

It is done all the time, I can assure you....

[/quote]

Really shouldn't use washing up liquid if possible it contains too much salt, use a lubricant just not that one.

If the liquid slowly runs down on to the copper wire or brass connectors it causes oxidisation and that can cause high resistance conections and that can cause heat and that can cause fire.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="ErnieY"][quote user="tj"]If they are in gaine, but only the two wires, it will be virtually impossible to pull an earth through it.[/quote]

What are you talking about ?

Why on earth (sic) wouldn't you be able to thread a 'tire fil' and subsequently draw a new core through a gain of 20mm dia or larger with only two 1.5 or 2.5mm cables in it ?

With respect, balderdash !

A 'tire fil' is at least twice the diameter of most normal domestic cable cores and I have often threaded one to a length of several meters and if it goes through the gaine why wouldn't it happily and safely draw in a new wire attached to it. It's the whole point of gaine and one of the few good things I can find to say about French electrics.

[/quote]

It always amazes me that people who have a bit of DIY electric experience like to dispute the facts from those who do it for a living !

First of all lighting circuit gaine is 16 mm, and if there are any bends in it more than about 45 degrees, ' no chance', you have obviously never tried pulling wires round a 90 degree bend, which is not uncommon here, since often gaine runs round corners, between the courses of stone etc.

Thats not say, the OP doesnt have the perfect installation that would allow him to do as you say :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I start from the position of knowing absolutely nothing at all about good electrical practice.

Lightfittings in the past didn't have any earth at all (even French ones) and it's quite common to see wiring installations in France without an earth to the ceiling light (you can tell without getting up on a ladder, as you can quite often see the cable the light hangs from, and it's clearly just two cores).

Now it is probably a good idea for the light fitting to be earthed. But light fittings don't get handled very often, particularly now we all have these long-life energy saving bulbs. Switches, however, are handled all the time, sometimes with wet/damp/sweaty/clammy (take your pick) hands. I haven't seen any switches with an earth. Can anyone explain why the difference in protection? Is it just that when the bulb has been removed, it's easy to poke your fingers into a live terminal? But if that is the case, how would an earth help you?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="tj"]If they are in gaine, but only the two wires, it will be virtually impossible to pull an earth through it.[/quote]

Do you wish to edit your comment to say "If they are in gaine bent at more than 45 degrees" then ?

I still completely disagree with such a sweeping statement though [;-)]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="Araucaria"]I start from the position of knowing absolutely nothing at all about good electrical practice.

Lightfittings in the past didn't have any earth at all (even French ones) and it's quite common to see wiring installations in France without an earth to the ceiling light (you can tell without getting up on a ladder, as you can quite often see the cable the light hangs from, and it's clearly just two cores).

Now it is probably a good idea for the light fitting to be earthed. But light fittings don't get handled very often, particularly now we all have these long-life energy saving bulbs. Switches, however, are handled all the time, sometimes with wet/damp/sweaty/clammy (take your pick) hands. I haven't seen any switches with an earth. Can anyone explain why the difference in protection? Is it just that when the bulb has been removed, it's easy to poke your fingers into a live terminal? But if that is the case, how would an earth help you?

[/quote]Frequency of handling is not an excuse for the lack of an earth on a metal light fitting [:'(]

Light switches of the all plastic variety have no need of an earth as even with soaking wet hands there is little if any risk of shock, the whole switch itself would need to be waterlogged for that to happen, a situation which would (should) never occur and if it did it would likely have tripped the supply anyway.

Common sense says that metal faced switches should have an earth but off hand I'm not sure if those available in France have an one or not, I'm sure tjcan tell us, being a pro and all that [:D]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="ErnieY"][quote user="tj"]If they are in gaine, but only the two wires, it will be virtually impossible to pull an earth through it.[/quote]

Do you wish to edit your comment to say "If they are in gaine bent at more than 45 degrees" then ?

I still completely disagree with such a sweeping statement though [;-)]

[/quote]

True,

however, I was speaking generally, as I said, the OP might have an ideal installation to allow him to do it, but frequently its not possible,,,

 

lets wait and see how the OP resolves it......

I still have a couple of decent hats to eat :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Of course if the gaine was flexible then the 45 degree thinummywotsit would be irrelevant wouldn't it? I have just tried pulling cable through some uk 18mm tubing with two cables in situ  and with two 45 degree bends at about 300mm apart (Piece of p155 to do) over a distance likely to be more difficult though. I didn't notice any spontaneous combustion either but I was sure I used to have eyebrows............
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...