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Tiling - Help!!


Btuckey
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My wife is trying to tile our bathroom and is having tremendous trouble.  The tiles are big and when she places them on the wall they just slide around and fall off.  The pre-mixed tile cement/glue (from Brico Depot) doesn't seem to have any initial 'grab'.  Some tiling was done by the builders (who want €40/m2 to do the bits outside the contract) who used a very thick layer of cement between the wall and the tile.  She is trying to maintain this thickness but the tiling to date has tiles with uneven inter-tile spacing and vary in distance from the wall.  Is this a contributory cause?

Any help very gratefully received as it is causing severe domestic in-harmony!

Cheers.

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Back to Brico Depot and buy a bag of the colle in powder form: and mix it up stiff!

It is suction you want; not "Grab"!

When you are laying large and thus heavier tiles, their weight makes thin cement droop.

Not a good idea to use very thick cement anyway: far better to firstly lay a thin skim of plaster (e.g.) and not tile until this has gone off.

 

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I am no expert BT, but I have tiled a couple of bathrooms whilst renovating, and the tiles are still in place after eight years.  What I did was to unibond the plasterboard first of all so the plasterboard doesn't absorb the adhesive.  Then fix a horizontal batten for your first line of tiles to rest against.  You will have to carry out a certain amount of measuring first, or offering up the tiles in order to get best fit to suit your walls for you don't want to cut any narrow pieces of tile once you take the batten away.  With the use of a toothed spatula, spread enough adhesive to fit a few tiles, then place the tiles on the wall using a slight twisting action.  If you use spacers for the next line above they cannot possibly slip.  Once the adehesive has gone off just remove the spacers, then grout.
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[quote user="Btuckey"]

My wife is trying to tile our bathroom and is having tremendous trouble.  The tiles are big and when she places them on the wall they just slide around and fall off.  The pre-mixed tile cement/glue (from Brico Depot) doesn't seem to have any initial 'grab'.  Some tiling was done by the builders (who want €40/m2 to do the bits outside the contract) who used a very thick layer of cement between the wall and the tile.  She is trying to maintain this thickness but the tiling to date has tiles with uneven inter-tile spacing and vary in distance from the wall.  Is this a contributory cause?

Any help very gratefully received as it is causing severe domestic in-harmony!

Cheers.

[/quote]

It would be helpful if you could explain big tiles, 600 x 400 mm?

The 6mm bed of tile cement is probably because they had a 6mm toothed tile trowel, a very standard size.

Tiling a bathroom, it is normal practice not to form full depth notches in the cement, in a 6mm depth of cement only form the notches 4 or 5mm deep. That is to prevent water getting to the face of the plaster board.

It should be easy to maintain the 6mm depth if you have the right size trowel or speader, likewise with the right size tile spacers. 

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Btuckley,

Select straight timber battens (25x20mm approx) and pin them all around the wall to support the first full row of tiles - check wall first for location buried pipes & cables with a detector - remove the batten once the adhesive has set - lay row of cut tiles below the batten down to the floor level (floors often not level) - this method stops any movement (sagging) of tiles - use tile spacers - allow the adhesive to set before grouting - wall must be reasonably flat to achieve thin layer of tile adhesive - fix a vertical timber batten near the corners to keep tiles vertical - remove batten and cut tiles into the corner (I tiled from floor to ceiling) - check setting out of the tiles by marking the tile spacing and adjusting the batten positions so you are not left with awkward narrow cut tiles.

Hope this helps and restores harmony!

Jono (Bedford and SW Vendee)

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1. You must use a cement based (bagged) tile adhesive with a large tile. This cures by chemical reaction whereas a ready-mixed adhesive(bucket) is air drying and therefore with large tiles, the adhesive in the middle will never set.

2. When using a cement based adhesive, you must prime any gypsum plaster or plasterboard to prevent the adverse chemical reaction that occurs between the two. Do not use PVA, its completely the wrong product. You must use an acrylic primer dispersion specifically made for tiling.

3. When fixing tiles greater than 300mm x 300mm you need a thicker bed than 6mm, probably 8 or 10mm, and you may need to back butter too. This is to ensure a full coverage of adhesive.

4. What are the tiles made from. Ceramic? Porcelain? Stone? Different materials require different adhesives.

5. Consider the weight you are fixing to the boards. About 30kgs per sq mtr is considered safe. With plaster the safe weight limit is only 20kgs per sq mtr. With some porcelain and natural stone, you will be on the limit. Make sure the boards are securely screw-fixed to the background.

6. Using a spirit level, mark a continuous line all round the room at a convenient height avoiding any obstructions. This is your datum line. You will need this to determine the highest and lowest points of the floor and ceiling. Then using a spirit level, draw a vertical line on each wall. From this you will be able to determine if any wall leans in or out. Then you can start setting out.

7. When setting out for width, you will find it easier to find the centre ot the wall and tile off the grout line or half tile, depending on which gives you the larger cut into the corner.

8. When setting out for height, remember the floor may not be level so test a few different positions starting with a half tile off the floor and adjust accordingly depending on where other cuts are (window reveals, bath, shower tray, etc).

9. Once you have determined your starting point, using a spirit level draw a horizontal line all round the room. This is your tile line. If you follow this, your tiles will meet up correctly in the final corner.

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Well firstly, many thanks for all of the responses.  Greatly appreciated, even those suggesting a marital trade-in! (Having said that, I have invested a lot of time and training over the last 30 years and couldn't face starting from scratch again..[;-)])

[quote user="teapot"]

The 6mm bed of tile cement is probably because they had a 6mm toothed tile trowel, a very standard size.

Tiling a bathroom, it is normal practice not to form full depth notches in the cement, in a 6mm depth of cement only form the notches 4 or 5mm deep. That is to prevent water getting to the face of the plaster board.

It should be easy to maintain the 6mm depth if you have the right size trowel or speader, likewise with the right size tile spacers. 

[/quote]

If you have 6mm notches I can understand how to get 6mm thick cement.  How do you only get 4mm notches in 6mm thick cement as you have to ‘guess’ the 2mm depth?

Quote from "Richard & Tracy".  (Sorry, your postings wont ‘quote’ as you get; “Non matching quote blocks in post").

1. You must use a cement based (bagged) tile adhesive with a large tile. This cures by chemical reaction whereas a ready-mixed adhesive(bucket) is air drying and therefore with large tiles, the adhesive in the middle will never set.

4. What are the tiles made from. Ceramic? Porcelain? Stone? Different materials require different adhesives.

Unquote.

The tiles are ceramic 250mm x 400mm x 8mm.  Do I need to use a cement based adhesive?  When you first start off, how do you ensure that the faces of the tiles are parallel to the plasterboard thereby preventing a sea-wave effect on the finished wall?

Cheers.

 

Brian

 

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As usual we are all firing off sugestions (good ones too everybody) but we need to hear from BTbuckley otherwise its a waste of time and sooner or later we will disagree over something and have a strop [:D]

Why when people post does it take sooo long to get back?

EDIT: just as I posted BTbuckley is back [:D]

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[quote user="Btuckey"]

[quote user="teapot"]

The 6mm bed of tile cement is probably because they had a 6mm toothed tile trowel, a very standard size.

Tiling a bathroom, it is normal practice not to form full depth notches in the cement, in a 6mm depth of cement only form the notches 4 or 5mm deep. That is to prevent water getting to the face of the plaster board.

It should be easy to maintain the 6mm depth if you have the right size trowel or speader, likewise with the right size tile spacers. 

[/quote]

If you have 6mm notches I can understand how to get 6mm thick cement.  How do you only get 4mm notches in 6mm thick cement as you have to ‘guess’ the 2mm depth?

By applying a slight angle to the trowel you reduce the hieght of the notches, keeping the same angle is the skilled bit. Yes 2mm is a bit of a guess its determined by how much pressure you apply to the trowel, again the skilled bit is maintaing the pressure throughout the job.

Quote from "Richard & Tracy".  (Sorry, your postings wont ‘quote’ as you get; “Non matching quote blocks in post").

1. You must use a cement based (bagged) tile adhesive with a large tile. This cures by chemical reaction whereas a ready-mixed adhesive(bucket) is air drying and therefore with large tiles, the adhesive in the middle will never set.

4. What are the tiles made from. Ceramic? Porcelain? Stone? Different materials require different adhesives.

Unquote.

The tiles are ceramic 250mm x 400mm x 8mm.  Do I need to use a cement based adhesive?  When you first start off, how do you ensure that the faces of the tiles are parallel to the plasterboard thereby preventing a sea-wave effect on the finished wall?

That size of tile, I would use a cement based adhesive, Dont' want to quote over Richard & Tracy though.

Use a spirit level, don't push the first course of tiles too hard until you have a couple of courses then it is easier to see where you are going. Have a straight block of wood to hand to apply pressure where required

Cheers.

 

Brian

 

[/quote]
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[quote user="Btuckey"][quote user="teapot"]

Why when people post does it take sooo long to get back?

[/quote]

'cause some of us have a life!![:P]

Thanks for the suggestions, they will be utilised.

Cheers.

Brian 

[/quote]

But at least I won't be spending another night on the tiles [:D]

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Use a cement based (Bagged) standard setting adhesive, not a fast setting one or you will spend half your time mixing and waste too much. Look for one that is classified EN12004 C2 or C2E. These are the european standards. Use an 8mm notched trowel. Trowel the adhesive onto the wall with the straight edge like you were plastering then comb it out with the notched edge whilst holding the trowel at 45 degrees to the wall. On no account try and comb leaving a thicker bed, you are guaranteed to have some tiles proud of others (lipping). Assuming the substrate is flat, combing correctly will ensure no lipping. Push the tile into the adhesive with a twisting/sliding action. Occasionally, pull a tile off to check you are getting adequate adhesive coverage. Dont grout until 24 hours have elapsed and use a flexible one, EN13888 CG2. Dont use the shower for 5 days after grouting.

The 2 most important thing are a) making sure your substrate is flat before you start and b) setting the job out correctly. By setting out as described earlier, you will know where all your cuts are before you start and you will avoid the 'oh bloody hell' moments when your 3 quarters through and find you've got a difficult cut. You could do all your field tiles first, to give you some confidence, and do the cuts last.

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