British builders - a note of caution

[Tarn1]

Just because they speak your language and come from your country of birth doesn't mean that they won't rip you off. I speak from experience. Ask yourself why they are here in the first place. Are they registered? Can you check it out? If not, why not? What or who are they running/hiding from? If they give you the 'I could earn a lot more in the UK' story, dont walk away, run!

French registered artisans are not always more expensive and if you do have cause for complaint you do have a chance for recompence.

If you employ a dodgy british builder working on the black you could end up getting your fingers severely burned....

[Will]

There are plenty of competent, legal British builders operating in France. Unlike many French they will usually turn up when they say and complete the job in reasonable time. Equally there are French tradesmen out there who rip people off - sometimes by application of the well-known 'foreigner tax' - and/or work on the black.

Having a Siret number really only proves you can fill out forms, it is no guarantee of good workmanship, general competence or honest dealings. It is more important to check insurance details (what is required has been fully covered on this forum), and to go by recommendations that you feel are genuine, and not just by a relative or somebody else getting a backhander.

One big advantage of using decent British tradesmen is that it avoids one frequent cause of problems - misunderstandings due to language issues.

That's not to say that all British tradesmen in France are whiter than white, not by any means, but earning a living in a foreign country is hard enough at the best of times, without having to cope with unjustified slurs on the whole breed because of a few bad experiences.

[La Guerriere]

I think that one of the problems is the subdivision of artisans in France. As long as you know exactly what you want look at local sources, ask at the Mairie etc etc, for a mason, carpenter, leccy, plumber etc. It is very hard to find the equivalent of a "general builder". they are few and far between. So expats tend to look for people who pretend to be "general builders".

One of the great advantages of using proper French registered artisans is that you get a proper itemised devis: far more detailed than anything you will get in the UK.

[gosub]

"Are they registered? Can you check it out? If not, why not?"

The answer is yes, you can check it out, and if they are not registered, then don't employ them.

Why did you?

[Sprogster]

Often it is a question of finding an Artisan who wants the work, as there is a severe shortage of many trades in France, especially in the South where a year's wait for the Artisan to start is not unusual!!

[Lancashire Lass]

You are so right Sprogster!

[LEO]

[quote user="Tarn1"]Just because they speak your language and come from your country of birth doesn't mean that they won't rip you off. I speak from experience. Ask yourself why they are here in the first place. Are they registered? Can you check it out? If not, why not? What or who are they running/hiding from? If they give you the 'I could earn a lot more in the UK' story, dont walk away, run!

French registered artisans are not always more expensive and if you do have cause for complaint you do have a chance for recompence.

If you employ a dodgy british builder working on the black you could end up getting your fingers severely burned....

[/quote]

If you employ a good British Builder working on the black you could end up totally satisfied and financially better off!

[Russethouse]

Yes, and you could end up in deep doo doo, too. As the 'employer' and as I understand it, (no doubt some one will quickly tell me if I'm wrong ) you are equally responsible if found out

[LEO]

Will you face the guillotine if "found out " and, will there be another 100 French men at the gallows , for the same crime!

[Russethouse]

[:)][:)][:)]

 I think they have a special guillotine for the the English........blunt blade[Www]

[kimg]

id use a british builder any day and would take and have taken the risk.

ive found french builders , workers, and suppliers generally to be absolutely hopeless though having said that recent experiance of an english  builder working in dept 62 indicates he was/is worse than useless.

maybe its just me, but being close to uk, i wouldnt hesitate it taking someone out from the uk

kim

[jon]

French builders usless!!!!!

Why do Britscome to France and BECOME builders....as if it is a trade that you learn over night!!!!!!
Plenty of work in UK for builders....but are many of them running from something!!!!!

[Théière]

This is an argument going nowhere.

All based on generalisations, there are good and bad on both sides of the channel and in fact the world.

[bubbles]

The voice of reason at last.

[sid]

Obviously there are good and bad of both nationalities.

We took the view that if we're going to live here and integrate then we'd use French artisans, and local ones at that! You only have to ask around to get plenty of recommendations. Putting something back into the local economy does you no harm at all, quite the opposite in fact! We found that the local builders in particular know the techniques used here (obvious?), and whilst a British builder may do exactly as you ask (because that's how you had it done in the UK) you're not necessarily going to get the best result. How many softwood stud partitions have I seen for example.

My French builder now lends me tools and gives advice freely; I couldn't ask for more!

Sid 

[Quillan]

[quote user="LEO"]Will you face the guillotine if "found out " and, will there be another 100 French men at the gallows , for the same crime![/quote]

No of course not but I can say this and some older members may well remember the case. A few years back a guy employed a chap on the black because a few roof tiles had slipped and fell off (in or around Montpelier I believe). The guy doing the job fell off the roof very seriously damaging his back. The guy that employed him not only had to pay the hospital bills but also had to pay the chaps benefits. This resulted in the guys house being seized and sold. He basically lost the lot for what, a saving of about 50 Euros. I should point out that both were French. All liabilty of those working on the black in France lays with the person employing them.

There are some excellent British builders who are fully registered and trained to work in the French building environment. The problem with the other British Builders (who's qualifications are based on how the long the ferry crossing took and how much of the Readers Digest book of DIY they can read in that time) is that they don't understand the variances in construction methods used in France nor the different electrical and plumbing systems.

If you were in the UK you would check that the builder you are employing is registered, has insurance etc. You would ask for more than one quote for the work, three probably. You would also ask around and visit some, or at least one, of his/her customers. What amazes me is that only too often I see Brits in France doing none of this and employing the first person who walks through the door. It seems to me that some leave the UK and forget to bring their common sense with them.

There are good and bad tradesmen and their country of origin has nothing to do with it.

Personally, I think most Brits employ British builders because they don't speak French and can't be bothered to learn.

[La Guerriere]

Sid, certainly softwood studding is not the conventional "French" way of doing a partition wall, but at least they don't wobble. I have used both, and I find I have to double up all the metal montants to get anywhere near as stiff a result as a good old-fashioned wood studding wall .... there is nothing like a bit of good old 2 x 4 ... there is nothing in the Normes to stop you from doing it if you like.

[Chancer]

[quote user="La Guerriere"] .... there is nothing like a bit of good old 2 x 4 ... [/quote]

I agree totally Sid but you should have finished the phrase with "in France".

Oh to be able to buy a section of sawn timber that has sensible dimensions and does not waste the mass of wood, the closest that you will find will be a chevron at 80 by 60mm which is equally useless in its intended use as a rafter, it may have been ok in the days of slate roofs but certainly not with modern tiles.

[Quillan]

I was under the impression, possibly incorrectly, that in some parts of France they use metal because of termits. Nobody probably looks but when your house gets its termite inspection before sale getting in to a wood stud partition (to inspect the wood) could be a problem. I know of one person who was told this when they partitioned up a room but how true it is I do not know. Personally I have used the metal version which I find works well if you follow the instructions but it was only a 1.5M long wall.

[Théière]

Agree with you there J.R. it is too small to allow the between rafter insulation + air gap that is required to make the European standard that we in the UK MUST do, so more insulation has to be added internally.

Of course the roofs would not get that "Charme" sagged look if they were bigger.

[Sprogster]

I bought a new house on a new domaine of over twenty houses that were built by properly registered French builders, for a reputable French development company. Five years later my neighbours and I are still trying to sort out with the insurers, problems with leaking roofs, logias, cracked external walls and numerous electrical and plumbing problems. In some houses the electrical fuse box has been known to burst into flames! 

One of the problems in France, is the difficulty in controlling the involvement of multiple sub-contractors, in that the original building firm contracted then subcontract the work to another firm, but keep a margin of the contract price for making the referal, then the second firm firm in turn decides to sub-contract and so it goes on. By the time the work is undertaken by the final sub-contractor in what by then can be a long chain, they are left being paid a fraction of the original contract price and therefore cut corners to save costs. Also when you have problems after the work has been completed, it can be impossible to find anyone to take responsibility, because of all the sub-contractors involved.

I know you have the fall back of the insurance taken out by the developer/builders, but French insurance companies seem to have taken the ability to avoid paying out on claims to an art form. For example, one of my neighbours was told that the insurance would only pay for the repairs to cracks in their external walls if there was evidence that water could get in the house through the cracks, and they had to use a hose to spray water on the crack to prove this to the visiting claims adjuster,  causing further water damage in the house! 

[La Guerriere]

Er don't they build houses using the same pyramid system of subbies in the UK ? We have purchased sevaral old houses (both UK and France) and two new ones in the UK both from reputable builders and they were both rubbish. Old houses are much more reliable, our present one was built in 1467. So much for ten-year guarantees !

[jon]

generalisation indeed!!!!!

Shall we collect facts...

No question mark required.

[Russethouse]

Why do Brits come to France and BECOME chefs....as if it is a trade that you learn over night!!!!!!
Plenty of work in UK for  chefs but are many of them running from something!!!!!

[:)][:)][:)]

 

[jon]

Not running from anything Russet house!All our taxes are paid to the last penny...every bill....and people in UK know where we are.

We are here because we wanted to operate a catering/Leisure buisness 8 months a year not 12.

We no longer wanted to pay 22 thousand pounds a year for a little shop without a garden.

Rates at 10 thousand pounds a year!
Not sure is it is sinking in to the anti jon brigade that things are going rather well for us...as well as we can possibly expect.

Have you not concidered that we may be of the age when we do not wish to work 80 hours or more a week ...............or 360 days a week.

Some of my friends and aquaintances are having a very tlough time in UK and would like to hand back their leases....in order not to pay rent.They are facing really terrible times and they are very hard working .....chefs with good skill....No I am not talking about Heston...

Restaurants may look like they are doing well in Uk but their overheads are carzy.

Buiders are usually resonably young men...usually.

Lots in UK appeared to b e avoiding tax and from what I gathered from so many people....doing really bad jobs.

Russet house please look at the relvant facts before you attack ....We did not come here for the same life style and with the same finacial structure  as we had in place in UK.