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Renovation costs and heating


canard
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Hi Canard

The post seems to be dealing with very specific information, providing lots of food for thought, however I wanted to ask you a couple of questions.

Have you received one devis from "a builder" who is experienced and insured to carry out all of those works you have listed or have you received several devis by trade for each aspect of your renovation works?  It is very unusual in France to find a builder that handles all trades and is insured and skilled to do so.  Do double check.

It has also been mentioned by another in the thread, which I would second and that is I would most definitely seek 2-3 devis by trade to provide you with costs for comparison.

Have you also been taken out to view past projects and spoken to past clients? 

Alongside understanding all that there is on offer to create your new home (heating, finishing, etc) I would strongly  recommend acting on the above points to ensure that when you make the commitment to the artisan(s) that you will get what you are paying for.

I'd be more than happy to discuss your project further if you'd like to PM me.

Good luck

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Hi 33neil, thanks for those sage words.

We went through the local Mairie to find the builder. He works with other tradespeople (plumber/electrician/windows guy/etc) and he's collated their devis and included them with his own. He works with these people regularly.

We did initially set out to find several builders for comparison but we like him, he seems to share our 'vision' for the property. He does most of the local work (small village) and we've seen several of his other finished jobs and spoken to 2 previous clients. We've waited almost 3 years for him and in that time he's done a smaller job for us which we've been very happy with. I know he's not the cheapest and one of the reasons I posted on here was to check if his prices were over the top (because we don't have another devis to compare) but as long as it's not hugely overpriced I'd like to work with someone I can trust and who will do a good job.

Please don't think all this talk of trust and liking the builder makes us complacent. I'm under no illusions as to how easily these things can go wrong.

I would be interested in any advice you have about getting him to focus on our job and finishing on time.

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Dear Canard

It seems you have been through a thorough process of choosing this builder and co.  With regards to timings, it is very difficult as it depends upon the artisan(s) concerned (he/they has/have his/their own reputation to think of) and what his/their planning is like re. future projects (in terms of leaving site to start another job).  Ensuring that the payment of monies is stacked in your favour could help maintain their 'focus' on your project, ie ensuring milestones are agreed and reached before payments.  Artisans do qoute payment schedules on devis' with timeframes, but these are negotiable, especially on such a project. 

One note of caution, the Mairie provides a list of local artisans.   Check they are insured (carrying the decenal/10 year insurance) to do the works each artisan is qouting for.  Always ensure you have seen what you need to see, do not rely upon anyone else and feel that is ok then as they must have checked.

I was told a story only yesterday of a French Architect who wasn't actually an architect and had fabricated it all.  One couple took 6 and a half years to sue, but did win and now others are coming out of the woodwork to sue him!  As you have said it yourself, it can go horribly wrong, so triple check.

Good luck with the project.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Dear Canard

Sounds like a very large project. We too went to the Mairie for a local builders list, our village is c150 houses. After the Mairie, we asked the local bar owner and the winemaker next door. The same two names kept arising, also the previous owners of our house had work done by the same builders/artisans.

Is everybody in the village on his 'bung' list? Well there comes a point when you have to go with it.

Can I suggest you have the work done in stages, this way you can assess the work in smaller stages without getting tied-in. May I suggest this will also incentivise the builder to perform at his best, given you have alot more work to hand-out. Nothing like nice local work for a local builder!

Regarding the question of heating. When we were researching this question there were no absolute answers. You would think 'maths' and 'science' would give the exact answer...........Oil, Geothermal (Air/Ground source), Solar, Woodburners (with back boilers), Pellets, Electric, LPG, Gas? and no doubt someone, somewhere could add more options. Before you decide on how, please consider the insulation of your new home. We discovered insulation was the most common factor in maximum efficiency from any heat source.

It does seem that you have the opportunity to create a very eco-friendly, heat efficient house. Personally, for my primary system I would go with a Geothermal Ground source heat pump  for DHW and underfloor heating, this can be reversed in the summer to take the internal temperature down by a few degrees. You have the option of individual room regulation, i.e. unused rooms, guest rooms etc. For a boost of living room heat in extreme temperatures, or just for asthetics, I would use a woodburner, medium to good quality, lower end of market can be less predictable on heat regulation and burn more wood.

Under normal circumstances the Geothermal (Ground source) looks an expensive option however, as a percentage of your overall budget I would suggest its the best value in terms of running costs and future proofing your heating bills. Any doubts over maximum temperatures when its really cold can be allayed with the relatively inexpensive woodburner for daytime or evening comfort. Although with ample insulation there shouldn't be any cause for concern.

I have also read about improvements to air source heat pumps recently, but if you research you'll find these still struggle in lower air temperatures and are more reliant on a secondary system. Scandinavia rely heavily on Ground Source (Primary) and Woodburners (Supplemantary). The only real argument against the above is installation cost, but considering your overall budget it seems to make sense.

If anybody has any real arguments, I know 'Poolguy' likes the sun! Please reply with them.

Good luck with your project and I'd like to know what you decide.

Tony

nemltd

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[quote user="nemltd"]

Regarding the question of heating. When we were researching this question there were no absolute answers. You would think 'maths' and 'science' would give the exact answer...........Oil, Geothermal (Air/Ground source), Solar, Woodburners (with back boilers), Pellets, Electric, LPG, Gas? and no doubt someone, somewhere could add more options. Before you decide on how, please consider the insulation of your new home. We discovered insulation was the most common factor in maximum efficiency from any heat source.

 

If anybody has any real arguments, I know 'Poolguy' likes the sun! Please reply with them.

 

Tony

nemltd

[/quote]

Not an argument but a thought: I agree insulation and excluding drafts are the most important aspects in keeping a house warm but why waste energy and keep a house warm? Wouldn't it be better to insulate the people living in the house. For example, put warmer clothes on when it's cold, use a warmer duvet or more blankets on the bed for when you sleep. It worked for me many years ago when I was growing up.

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