Jump to content

ADVICE ON WOODBURNER PLEASE


Angie
 Share

Recommended Posts

After suffering an horrendously cold spell last year and again this year we have decided to install a woodburner, however we do not have the sums available to purchase one of the "better" stoves and have looked at some of the models available in Castorama - we need a large size one for it not to look swamped in our big sitting room however, we were wondering if anyone out there has actually bought and installed one of these cheaper fires and what you think of them.  The price of the one we have seen is around 700 euros (not including all the flues etc.) and is a 10kw.  Other than that, our local supplier's range starts at more than 1,800 for a smaller fire and even this would be well out of our price range - the size we actually need comes in at closer to 2,500 euros.  Any advice would be much appreciated in time for next year!!!
Link to comment
Share on other sites

We bought a Supra 13kw woodburner from Castorama 6 years ago. It was on offer for 900 euros.

Apart from having to replace the internal cast iron backplate which had cracked due my wifes belief that unless it was burning like a blast furnace, it wasn't working properly, its been perfect.

We did break the glass which could happen to anyone, but as a simple rectangle, easy to do.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Steve, The advice I give is from my own experience. We started out like you, looking for a bargain, but when I did some research, the most obvious difference apart from price, was the fact that the dearer stoves weighed a lot more than the cheaper end of the market ones. As a stove acts like a large radiator my thinking was bigger (weight wise) would be better. So we bit the bullet and bought a Jotul. Great choice and the extra money is being repaid in performance. Couple of tips to pass on are, get whoever fits the stove to clean the chimney before installing the liner with a machine, it’s rather like a flail, not just a brush, the heat in side the flue liners of modern stoves is tremendous and any soot deposits are likely to be dangerous. Also buy yourself a humidity meter, very cheap, so you can test the dampness of the wood, around 14 or 15% is good, too damp you get soot and the wood will smoulder, to dry and you loose the heat value of the fuel. A good stove will cut the cost of other heating systems that you might have, and also looks good. Good luck
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I bought a 9k Jotul for 100 euros at a vide grenier it is keeping the house toasty right now and is a delight to use - it may look like a coffin but it is very efficient and will burn slowly all night.

It is a far better wood burner than the other two we have; a Supra and a Colonial.

Check out your local Troc or get an internet deal.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Generally the cheeper stoves are made from mild steel plate. These are fine for low heat burning but hare a short life (6-10 years) The cast iron stoves withstand a higher heat and produce a greater output and have a much longer life , sometimes up to 40 years. The bottom line is normally 'you get what you pay for'. I recently fitted a 12kw cast iron stove with boiler and it cost me €2,000 all included.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="pete"]Generally the cheeper stoves are made from mild steel plate. These are fine for low heat burning but hare a short life (6-10 years) The cast iron stoves withstand a higher heat and produce a greater output and have a much longer life , sometimes up to 40 years. The bottom line is normally 'you get what you pay for'. I recently fitted a 12kw cast iron stove with boiler and it cost me €2,000 all included.[/quote]

Welcome to the forum pete, what is your basis for the above assumptions?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My assumptions are based on my 27 year experience within the heating supply and installation business and with disscussion with designers and importers of stoves over this time. Up until about 20 years ago these stoves and range stoves was  the only heat source in the majority of Rural Irish homes. They provided hot water and heat only to one main room and was also used for cooking. The basic design has not changed since then but on some models baffels are introduced in the flue system to improve efficiency.Thanks to improvements in plumbing and water circulation pumps,stats/motorized valves and rads, stoves are now be used as a central boiler for heating and or assisted heating on dual systems.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="pete"]My assumptions are based on my 27 year experience within the heating supply and installation business and with disscussion with designers and importers of stoves over this time. Up until about 20 years ago these stoves and range stoves was  the only heat source in the majority of Rural Irish homes. They provided hot water and heat only to one main room and was also used for cooking. The basic design has not changed since then but on some models baffels are introduced in the flue system to improve efficiency.Thanks to improvements in plumbing and water circulation pumps,stats/motorized valves and rads, stoves are now be used as a central boiler for heating and or assisted heating on dual systems.[/quote]

Thats interesting as it contradicts what others say:

http://www.4ecotips.com/ecohome_article91.htm

http://www.woodheat.org/planning/buyright.htm

http://www.davidmg.com/caouflla.html

Generally the cheeper stoves are made from mild steel plate. Not always, look at the clear view, one of the most efficient and certainly not cheap.  These are fine for low heat burning but hare a short life (6-10 years) Not really unless you are talking about the thin sheet steel vesions, The cast iron stoves withstand a higher heat Steel plate can withstand higher temprature and does not crack. and produce a greater output Both types have the same output but steel heats up and cools down quicker. and have a much longer life , sometimes up to 40 years.  The bottom line is normally 'you get what you pay for'. I recently fitted a 12kw cast iron stove with boiler and it cost me €2,000 all included.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you so much everyone for your most valuable information and advice we will certainly follow many of your suggestions up. Here's to a lovely warm winter next year! Theiere, not sure what my location in France has to do with anything but thanks for contributing anyway.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="Steve"] Theiere, not sure what my location in France has to do with anything but thanks for contributing anyway.[/quote]

Because people know of different dealerships in different regions and may be able to pass on recommendations for suppliers. There is for example a really good guy in Niort, not much use if you are in the Avignon

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We were so happy with the Supra Selestat we bought new years ago, that we bought virtually the same model secondhand from an advertiser on AngloInfo when we moved here to hovel2 (look on www.supra.fr). It runs 24/7 during the winter months; chucks out 13Kw of heat; is easy to keep in at night provided you have good wood, and was relatively easy to install (although we did have to build our own chimney!). Our flue runs up to the ceiling before going into the chimney, therefore providing even more heat.

My family in the UK have owned Jotuls for years (LOL - the coffin type) and have been really happy with them, but we just couldn't afford the size we needed in France to heat the 40 cubic metre room, so bought, for us, the next best thing.

Don't forget that you need a good chimney liner, and all the other flues pipes and elbows you need to have it installed properly - it all mounts up. If you are fiscally resident in France there are still good tax credits available if the stove fits the criteria (and most do) and if it's supplied and installed by a specialist. For an expensive stove like Jotul this is well worth the money but for a little cheapy that may not be the case.

Our ramoneur fits woodburners - most do, and Castorama probably has a stove fitting service so it's worth checking with them.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If starting from scratch I'd go for a pellet stove every time - provided there was a source of pellets nearby, at a good price.

Even though the balanced flue and its installation added 50% to the cost of our stove, installed 2 winters ago, I would only buy a log burner if I had no other choice.

We had 7 years of storing huge piles of logs, splitting and cutting them (there are always some too long to fit in the stove), carrying them in on cold wet nights, cleaning up the mess they leave indoors, and removing and disposing of the ashes.

Now it is a joy to have clean, easily handled fuel, and a very efficient fire that needs almost no attention.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, I can understand woodburners would be hard work for some people but I love them, and I'm not particularly young:(

We have all our logs delivered ready cut (always have had); it costs about 5 euros more per stere but well worth it. They're delivered in the summer usually so we spend a day stacking, and luckily our woodstore is under the hanger by the back door. I use an Ikea blue bag full a day so get in two days supply at a time. Our Supra has storage underneath so that's filled and the log basket is filled. Takes 5 mins and I've never ever done it on a cold wet night! The ashpan is emptied once a week ( not much ash from woodburners) and the glass cleaned occasionally.

We have another woodburner to install in another room that has a wide fireplace, so we are having a tall metal cage constructed to store wood next to the stove (these can also be bought, but we want a taller one).

Hopefully, at hovel3 (future) we'll have central heating installed (we have electric heating upstairs here) and will consider a pellet boiler if there is room somewhere for the large hopper and the sacks of pellets. Has the price of pellets risen much in the last few years since they've been on the market?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Our stove has a built in hopper which holds 3 x 15Kg sacks of pellets, enough for about 2 days in this weather. I have a remote thermostat, running on 20º daytime, 19º at night.

The pellets are in waterproof bags and are stored outside under a lean-to roof and a tarp. They take up about 1/3 of the space of our previous log supply for a similar period.

Last year we paid 245€ for a ton of pellets, we collected them with my VW transporter and a 500Kg trailer. 10€ cheaper than last year, and better quality.

Our average spend per year for logs, delivered, was over 350€, and the house was not so warm as now. Due mainly to more efficient burning and the balanced flue taking outside air - not drawing nice warm air from inside the house.

Also, a lot of heat is recovered by the flue. The inlet air is at 40ºC with the stove at its lowest setting today, outside air is 7ºC.

However, it is still cheaper to use our 2,6KW of reverse cycle heating, producing about 7,5KW of heat, on mild days, when EDF is charging at their "blue" or "white" rates on our Tempo tariff. Pellets cost approx. 5 €cents per KWH.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi,

I have installed 2 woodburners in my house this year. The first was a Hunter Herald 8 (11kw) which replaced an insert in the main sitting room.

This Christmas I installed the second in the small sitting room. This one is less than half the price of the Herald a more than twice as good.

As an example, we put a couple of logs on the burner, turned the damper down a touch, left the doors from the sitting room open to the hall and kitchen/dining room - which is a large open galleried room - went outside to do some gardening and returned inside after a couple of hours to a warm welcoming hallway and the kitchen being warmed. I appreciate that we do not live there full time but snow on the ground is cold no matter where you are.

I bought it from <http://www.naturalheating.co.uk/cathedral-cast-iron-multifuel-stove-12kw-p-498.html> and they deliver to France although I brought it over on the trailer.

There is a pic of it installed on this thread

http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/1926589/ShowPost.aspx

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you are in the Mayenne area have a look at ginterwoodstoves.com but even if you are miles away, they are full of knowledge and would be only to pleased to give you some advice. He collects from the UK and delivers to you in France.

We bought a Hunter Villager 8kw stove february last year from them and it delivers far better heat than the old 14kw insert that was in the house when we bought it. We also use far less wood which is an added bonus. We paid in sterling (you can pay in euros) and it cost £650 including delivery - worth every penny.

Hope this is helpful to you.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Having discovered that our first woodburner had been fitted incorrectly by the previous English proprieter, with potentially disastrous results (incorrectly fitted flue pipe and consequent soot accumulation) we have replaced the old woodburner with a new French one and had it fitted, together with completenew "tubage", by a local "chauffagiste", and I know it's "aux normes"! There are some things that I won't have done unless it's by a French artisan, as I've seen so many dubious installations. This is not meant to disparage the supplier mentioned above, or any other importer, it's just my opinion and preference.

We have got a Deville Petit Express. This is not so much a fancy ornamental model, ie it's not got ornate cast iron exterior metal work and legs, but it fits in well with a more modern decor. It works fantastically well, having a thermostatic air regulator, and can easily be loaded for a ten-hour burn. The firebox is smaller than our old "Castorama" model, but it produces much less ash and uses less wood. It still has a cast iron firebox but has steel outer panelling.

The big plusses for me are having an installation which would satisfy any inspection, and being able to obtain the tax rebate (40% up to the end of 2009, reduced now I think) on the cost of the woodburner itself. 

An interesting point is that the chauffagiste reckoned that at 9kw it was too big for the room (63 cu metres) and he went to great lengths to tell us that we only needed around 5kw max. I know from visiting other houses in the depths of winter that small woodburners don't always provide sufficient heat so we insisted on the original choice. It's worked out well because by leaving doors open we can let the heat circulate downstairs and it even warms the upstairs rooms. We have the option of turning it up if needed which a smaller one wouldn't provide.

Sid

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We have a hunter herald 11 Kw stove also.

Up to very recently there was no problem keeping in in overnight but now......out every morning, same air settings, wood from same stockpile (ie age / dryness) but it burns like mad in the evening, goes out overnight and is a bu**er to get to burn well during the day.

What are we doing wrong?

Any advice gratefully received as the kindling stock is becoming a problem.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's the same problem with our Herald - can go through a thick oak log in 10 mins - fantatstic flames but not much heat and it uses way too much

fuel during  an evening. The only upside is that it lights with just a few twigs and off it goes! I want  to retro fit a damper but the flue is too short for an access door. The other stove has a 7" flue to 180mm liner but the Herald has 6" flue to 180mm - I can't see that should affect the burning rate. We did have both woodburners on at the same time and the difference in burning rates was staggering.

Picture shows the Herald at full burn closing the air controls down doesn't affect the burn rate!!!!

If I hadn't another woodburner to compare it too, using the same wood etc then I suppose I would leave well alone but it's next on my list of jobs to re-visit!!!

[IMG]http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad308/steveg22/EPSN0387.jpg[/IMG]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Steve

Looks very welcoming!

It sounds as though there's too much air if it burns like mad. Have you replaced the "string" seals on the door? "joint de porte (tresse)". It tends to get flattened over a period of use and can leak air around the door. 

Also I find that ours works better if I leave a layer of ash in the bottom of the grate rather than cleaning it all out too regularly.

Getting it to burn during the day sounds like the opposite effect, which is hard to understand. This is often lack of "tirage" (draw), and can be caused by soot and tar deposits in the chimney.

I find it difficult to see how you would have both problems within the same day though!

Maybe the Brit stove objects to the French wood! [:D]

Sid

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...