Lime-Based White Paint! For God's Sake!!

[Rich1972]

Actually I don't care if it's lime-based, I just want a white, breathable paint to go on a wall of pre-painted lime render! The wall must've been painted years ago and it's not emulsion. It's very powdery with a matt finish so I don't want to throw emulsion onto it. This is France! Land of limestone houses and renovations, and can I find anything suitable at the local brico? No. It's all emulsion this, that and the other.

WHY don't they sell the stuff??

Honestly, I could scream sometimes [:'(]

[Théière]

Calm down, calm down [;-)]

You have to know exactly what to ask for, my impression is if you don't you will just get a Gallic shrug, some sort of fun the French play on the British

Chaux Aimos" which comes in buckets and has the consistency of Creme Fraiche. It's very pure, very white and makes a very economical limewash paint when mixed with water. It can also be used as the basis for other inerior decorative finishes and easily coloured with pigments.

[WJT]

Théiére, that is interesting, I have never heard of that, I thought it was called badigeon. Does anyone know the difference between badigeon and chaux aimos? [8-)]

[just john]

[quote user="WJT"]  Does anyone know the difference between badigeon and chaux aimos? [8-)][/quote]

Chaux aimos = hydrated lime

badigeon = Distemper applied with a brush

from The Building Conservation Directory, 2002
Distemper - (made from powdered chalk (calcium carbonate) and size (gelatin) such as rabbit skin glue. alternatives may included lime (calcium hydroxide), white lead (lead carbonate) or satin white (made by adding aluminium sulphate to slaked lime).  

[WJT]

Thank you Just John.

I think that the mixture that they are using here is with chaux aimos because they have bags of hydrated lime that they use to mix it.

[Rich1972]

[quote user="Théière"]

Calm down, calm down [;-)]

You have to know exactly what to ask for, my impression is if you don't you will just get a Gallic shrug, some sort of fun the French play on the British

Chaux Aimos" which comes in buckets and has the consistency of Creme Fraiche. It's very pure, very white and makes a very economical limewash paint when mixed with water. It can also be used as the basis for other inerior decorative finishes and easily coloured with pigments.

[/quote]

Hmmm...and is this stuff readily available or do I have to order it online from a one-man band located in a small hut deep in the Pyrenees? [kiss]

Edit: I'm rather disconcerted that Googling 'chaux aimos' has only produced 36 results...

[Dave&Olive]

hi ok

just use chaux agricole

[URL=http://s83.photobucket.com/albums/j311/daveolive/?action=view¤t=PDR_0145.jpg][IMG]http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j311/daveolive/th_PDR_0145.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

done the chicken kit with it ... put the powder into the water not water into the powder paint on when it`s still hot

[URL=http://s83.photobucket.com/albums/j311/daveolive/chickens/?action=view¤t=PDR_0151.jpg][IMG]http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j311/daveolive/chickens/th_PDR_0151.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

Dave

[pachapapa]

[quote user="WJT"]Théiére, that is interesting, I have never heard of that, I thought it was called badigeon. Does anyone know the difference between badigeon and chaux aimos? [8-)][/quote]

You get my vote.[:)] But I do like the distemper post, most amusing.

http://www.meda-corpus.net/libros/pdf_fiches/liban_frn/rehab/3-01%20FR.pdf

Amos a biblical reference with a soupçon of greek.[:D]

http://djep.hd.free.fr/LaReferenceBiblique/?Livre=30&Vers=1&Chap=2

[Théière]

[quote user="DaveOlive"] hi ok just use chaux agricole [URL=http://s83.photobucket.com/albums/j311/daveolive/?action=view¤t=PDR_0145.jpg][IMG]http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j311/daveolive/th_PDR_0145.jpg[/IMG][/URL] done the chicken kit with it ... put the powder into the water not water into the powder paint on when it`s still hot [URL=http://s83.photobucket.com/albums/j311/daveolive/chickens/?action=view¤t=PDR_0151.jpg][IMG]http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j311/daveolive/chickens/th_PDR_0151.jpg[/IMG][/URL] Dave[/quote]

One day you'll be able to sort that mess out[Www] the gobbledygook that is

Be careful if you go that route (if you can decipher it [:)] that is producing a caustic mix (we went over this some time ago) wear mask goggles and gloves as you are using quicklime.

[pachapapa]

[quote user="Théière"]

[quote user="DaveOlive"] hi ok just use chaux agricole [URL=http://s83.photobucket.com/albums/j311/daveolive/?action=view¤t=PDR_0145.jpg][IMG]http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j311/daveolive/th_PDR_0145.jpg[/IMG][/URL] done the chicken kit with it ... put the powder into the water not water into the powder paint on when it`s still hot [URL=http://s83.photobucket.com/albums/j311/daveolive/chickens/?action=view¤t=PDR_0151.jpg][IMG]http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j311/daveolive/chickens/th_PDR_0151.jpg[/IMG][/URL] Dave[/quote]

One day you'll be able to sort that mess out[Www]

Be careful if you go that route (if you can decipher it [:)] that is producing a caustic mix (we went over this some time ago) wear mask goggles and gloves as you are using quicklime.

[/quote]

Certainly a cheap alternative but care must be taken to get just the right proportion of water. On the safety side, how can I put it, probably more chance of injury using a charcoal or gas barbecue.[:)]

[pachapapa]

[IMG]http://www.citemaison.fr/upload/cm/mc/Image/Ouvrages_OOU_ILL0_bv.asp.jpg[/IMG] I cost nearly € 40 for a plastic pail containing about 20 kilos but brits have LOTS of cash.[:D]

[Rich1972]

So what have people actually used in their own homes!! I'm none the wiser at the moment [:'(]

[ngh]

Well. When we moved into our 17th century home my better half was insisting we use all the right gear. We made the ceilings good with field mud. Then bought from the UK 40lts of Lime wash paint. At this time my wife had to return to the UK for a couple of weeks. Good job really as if she was here she'd have been wearing it!

It was bloody awful to put on. There was more down my arm than on the ceiling. Well got it finished in a couple of days, look up........ and all the staining from the centuries past where coming through again. In the end while i was on my own i made the executive decision....mat paint to seal and 2 coats of brilliant white emulsion to finish. job done, better half cross at first but forgave me after she'd had a go.

Never again...

[Théière]

If the wall needs to breathe then lime wash.

Emulsion on a lime ceiling is risky, any moisture won't escape and any moisture makes the ceiling heavier and heavier and then it lets go in a spectacular fashion.

[Rich1972]

[quote user="Théière"]

If the wall needs to breathe then lime wash.[/quote]

So given that France is full of lime-rendered walls, why doesn't the local brico sell anything other than emulsion? I'm trying to do things 'properly' and it's turning into a gigantic pain in the butt.

[Théière]

If you have a good lime rendered wall it doesn't need anything else, yes they dust a little but that's all. Brico's don't give a stuff apart from their bottom line and how many are owned by B&Q?

Specialist companies will sell it. It's exported to the UK for heavens sake.

 

[Rich1972]

[quote user="Théière"]

If you have a good lime rendered wall it doesn't need anything else

 [/quote]

I know...but as I said in the OP, the wall in one of the downstairs rooms was painted years ago and the render didn't need replacing, so I need to repaint it as it was probably last painted in the 1960s. I find it astonishing that you can't just go and buy a pot of the stuff off the shelf.

[Théière]

Are you saying France makes hard work of a simple task?

Away from the Brico's which only cater for the mass market you will find it.

Give St Astier a call and ask for a dealer near you.

[Rich1972]

[quote user="Théière"]

Are you saying France makes hard work of a simple task?

[/quote]

Yes! [:D]

[tj]

Lafarge chaux blanche, add to water to a cream consistency, as good as as it gets! and cheap too!

[Théière]

Not as good as it get's Lafarge chaux blanche contains cement and that's not good.

St Astier......as good as it gets period.

[pachapapa]

[quote user="Théière"]

Not as good as it get's Lafarge chaux blanche contains cement and that's not good.

St Astier......as good as it gets period.

[/quote]

At the begining of august I visited E Leclerc Agri-Bati for lime. The Lafarge was € 11.90 per 35 kg bag, St Astier was € 8.75.

I bought the Lafarge product despite the significantly higher price.

[tj]

[quote user="Théière"]

Not as good as it get's Lafarge chaux blanche contains cement and that's not good.

St Astier......as good as it gets period.

[/quote]

its a very small amount of cement, which gives a hard finish and doesnt brush off when you walk past,,,,,,,

but more interestingly, why is it not good ?

[Théière]

It forms what is known a gauge mix, the cement is too hard for the lime so they do not stick together for long. cement is not breathable so doesn't help in any way.

Limestone and argillaceous limestone that contains silica will also contain sulphates, alumina, iron, magnesium, manganese, potassium and other compounds. Burning the limestone at temperatures above 800oC will combine the above components with the calcium carbonate forming calcium silicates, aluminates and ferrites. The ideal result would be to obtain a product containing the required value of combined silica with the lowest possible presence of potentially damaging other components such as tricalcium aluminate (C3A) and soluble sulphates.

Tricalcium aluminate starts occurring when materials are burned at 900oC and increases at 1,000oC and over. The highest values are found in ordinary cement (sometimes over 10%). Obviously the lower the amount of alumina and sulphates contained in the raw material, the better the final product quality. St. Astier deposits are exceptionally low in alumina and in sulphates, the resulting products are therefore virtually free of these components.
Ordinary cement mortars and mortars made with lime where cement has been added are sure to contain high quantity of tricalcium aluminate which in contact with suplhates and water can produce sulphate attack starting with efflorescence and progressing to damaging joints, bricks and stone. The BS 5628 warns about this but does not indicate that a simple solution could be the use of a pure NHL mortar.
High presence of gypsum is also to be avoided. Its sulphate content can be disastrous.

More information here, now I don't care who uses it and how long they have done the job and that they are French, Italian or any other nationality it's wrong and is only used to provide a slightly faster set.

[tj]

its not helpful to copy paragraphs of irrelevance from the internet like you just have,,,,,,,,,,,,any idiot can do that.