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A Few Questions on Electrics that I haven't found elsewhere...


Layne
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Sorry if this is a repeat, but I have a few questions on electrical installation that I am struggling to find answers to in the various guides/books I have seen.

I am virtually complete on a full rewire of my house in 79 and am quite confident (fingers crossed)I have grasped most requirements to comply with the Norme.

Questions on the final few items in progress however:

1. Do TV/Co-ax and telephone cables have to be in Gaine. Can they share?

2. Do the separate earth/terre runs to water main/bath/sink etc have to be in gaine?

3. Is it a requirement to use GLT (the large and overpriced plastic containment) for cabling as it approaches the Dis Boards, or can I construct a similar containment in say timber?

4. What is the requirement on light fittings. Is it essential to use the plug in types? Is this the case if you put light fittings in, or just if you have a "naked" bulb on a flex?

Grateful if someone is expert enought to advise and I will then soon be setting up the Consuel inspection and I hope on my way to a permanent supply.

Rgds

Layne
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1. Yes, 25mm and yes they can share, but not with power cables.

2. Yes, where they pass through something. You do not need LEP with plastic plumbing.

3. It's a GTL and yes, you can construct it from timber, as long as it complies, size-wise.

4. A DCL (light socket) must be used, except where it can't be (a class II bathroom light, spotlights or outside lights for example). A pendant light must use a DCL.

Good luck
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Thanks Nick, very helpful.

Sorry, one more question. I have brought co-ax and telephone cabling back to dis board location. Do I have to terminate these into a proprietary coffret de communication(again these seem very expensive).

Is there any other way to finish these? I'm not planning on having an aerial (we have satellite direct to 2 rooms already) or main telephone connection in any event.

Thanks again

Layne
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For the LEP in a bathroom, the local bonding earth wire only needs to be in conduit if 2.5mm earth wire is used. If you use 4mm or 6mm it can be run clipped direct or (any other suitable method) without the need for conduit to be used.

The type of Coffret de Communication used in a GTL depends on the date of the Permis de Construire. Without looking up the dates, Antons suggestion is perfectly acceptable for installations anterieur to this date using standard co-ax and PTT telephone cable. New instalations are required to have cat 5 or 6 wiring to all communication outlets ( TV, telephone etc) and then these outlets can be multipurpose.

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I made up my own coffret de communication last time and it was accepted by the Consuel inspector, thigs have since moved on and it is a bit more of a defi to make your own but as I have another 6 or 7 to do I have the motivation.

In my opinion it is entirely possible to bricolage a coffret de communication to meet the current requirements for well under €100 including the DTI which I believe is not included in the branded coffrets, whether it will be acceptable to the Consuel inspector remains to be seen, as I said he was entirely satisfied with my last one, being interested in functionality not NF markings, in any case many new and expensive things carry the mark even when a standard does not yet exist, I think its more a case of - NF?  that must be top quality, C.E. be very wary, with which I do agree, and a British Standard? - not on your Nelly, that must be rubbish like their food [:D]

P.S. The consuel inspector did request that I earthed the din rail in my DIY coffret de communications.

I have a few supplementary questions:

Does telephone and coax cable really have to go in 25mm gaine or only when it is shared?

I now understand, and correct me if I am wrong that the cabling to all the telephone, television etc RJ45 sockets should be CAT5, this is I believe so that one can change the function via the barette de brassage so I will have to change some of the cables that I have already run, what about the incoming ones from the FT box on the external wall to the DTI, should they be or would they benefit from being CAT5?

Final question have there been any other significant changes to the NFC 1500 -01 in the last couple of years?

Thank you.

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Quote:

P.S. The consuel inspector did request that I earthed the din rail in my DIY coffret de communications.

I have a few supplementary questions:

Does telephone and coax cable really have to go in 25mm gaine or only when it is shared?

I now understand, and correct me if I am wrong that the cabling to

all the telephone, television etc RJ45 sockets should be CAT5, this is I

believe so that one can change the function via the barette de brassage

so I will have to change some of the cables that I have already run,

what about the incoming ones from the FT box on the external wall to the

DTI, should they be or would they benefit from being CAT5?

Final question have there been any other significant changes to the NFC 1500 -01 in the last couple of years?"

End quote.

Are you sure he meant the DIN rail? They expect the earth bar to be connected, but I've never heard about the DIN rail being earthed.

Yep, all comms wiring now uses 25mm gaine.

If you are only going for a Grade 1 comms installation then you can still use old PTT type cabling (unscreened twisted pairs), but this limits its usefulness. Given that Cat5e is as cheap as makes no difference it's better to use that, or better, anyway. Until you get to Grade 3 systems there is still a requirement to have separate coax runs for TV distribution.

There's no advantage in changing the cabling pre-DTI.

There were several updates & changes to the normes effective at the end of this past July. The changes are all indicated in the most recent edition (25th) of "Locaux d'Habitation" available from Promotelec.

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Can you give me a hint what they are Johnathan?

Last year I bought the 24th edition memento which came with a tiny additif which was mainly concerned with batroom zones and parafoudres, I also bought immeubles collectifs, to be honest I was somewhat underwhelmed with what I got for my hard earned and I dont want to fork over even more dough just to get another copy of the 24th with a pamphlet of the updates.

P.S. twas indeed the barrete de terre.

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The old type of master sockets, the ones with the Alexander Graham Bell socket also had that function, at least they did in 2006.

Quite how France continued with that prise that looks like it belongs in a Jules Verne novel for so long is beyond me, even now all the phones in the shops still have one fitted I believe.

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DTI = Dispositif de Terminaison Intérieur.

It is, as others have said, a master socket that disconnects the installation wiring from the supply wiring thus making the 'phone engineer's job a lot easier when finding what (or who!) is at fault.

Slowly shops are selling 'phones with RJ45 plugs fitted, & they tend to be supplied with an adaptor to the old inverted "T" type. The new type socket is supposed to have been fitted in all places where the permis de constuire was applied for after 01/01/2008. Regardless of that I now fit RJ45 outlets & Cat5e cables as a matter of course, unless a higher grade is specified.

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Jonathan.

Hope that I have spelt your name right!

There is no permis de construire in operation for the flats that I am currently converting as it is only and internal fit out, I may not even need Consuel as I think they will be meublée de tourisme and if so I will initially up my current supply.

Nonetheless I want to get a Consuel inspection on all of them and do a proper colonne collectif which means if need be they can be rented as furnished/unfurnished with the locataires having their own abonnements.

At the moment in my ignorance I have seperate gaines with telephone cable and coax to each of the required areas which I now intend to replace with cat5 cabling, RJ45 sockets and make an up to date coffret de communications, my concern is that I may not be able to pull cat5 cabling through the exiting gaines (some of the runs are tortuous) I dont want to have to rip out all the placo, its a loft conversion so sloping ceilings and combles perdu. Plus the gaines are 20mm not 25mm, I filled my own but I am pretty sure that the préfilé telephone cable came in a 20mm gaine

My question is, if I do find myself stuck would what I have be acceptable to Consuel given that a permis de construire is not in operation?

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This week's pub for Bricodepot (AGH) 45 coffrets de communication avec barrettes de terre et 2 rails DIN. I repartiteur TV?SAT 4 sorties  avec fiche F . 1 DTI prise RJ45. 1 reglette 12 plots pour repartition telephonique. The make is F&G and the cost is € 59. Which is about what they should cost. Appologies for typing left glasses at work and arms not long enough theses days.

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Saw that but it isnt complaint with the latest requirements as it lacks a barrette de brassage RJ45

Not a bad price for what it is although that is only comparing it with the Legrand retail price of €1700 for one of theirs.

The F&G one does exactly what my existing one does which I built up from a tableau nu with a couple of repartiteurs and a DTI which was the most expensive bit.

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[quote user="Chancer"]

Jonathan.

Hope that I have spelt your name right! - Correct, thanks.

At the moment in my ignorance I have seperate gaines with telephone cable and coax to each of the required areas which I now intend to replace with cat5 cabling, RJ45 sockets and make an up to date coffret de communications, my concern is that I may not be able to pull cat5 cabling through the exiting gaines (some of the runs are tortuous) I dont want to have to rip out all the placo, its a loft conversion so sloping ceilings and combles perdu. Plus the gaines are 20mm not 25mm, I filled my own but I am pretty sure that the préfilé telephone cable came in a 20mm gaine

My question is, if I do find myself stuck would what I have be acceptable to Consuel given that a permis de construire is not in operation?

[/quote]

There's 'nowt wrong with using the older cabling, it's just better not to as you may suffer from interference to data signals due to the lack of screening (but old analogue phone signals won't care). In other words you can just use RJ45 for the phone outlets, on the old type cabling, & you keep the coax where you require TV outputs as the "data" cabling you have won't deal with such. Isn't it strange that you can still buy prefilled green comms gaine in 20mm diameter....?

Regarding the debate about Brico Depot cheapo coffrets de communication; since 31/07/2010 (when the latest amendment to the normes came into effect) it is obligatory to fit the more advanced kind of comms distribution for installations in places where a permis de constuire is deposited after that date, or where a devis is accepted for a new installation after that date. As already mentioned these now require a manually patchable system within in them, using short RJ45 "cordons de brassage" between the input & output sockets. This becomes a big subject especially when you start merging TV &/or satellite signals into the mix as well.

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