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New Oil fired boiler choice


Sophie666
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[quote user="Quillan"] If you are looking at an alternative you might consider reversible inverter clim. We had electric heating backed up by paraffin heaters and a mega log burner. Each of our 2kw electric heaters has gradually been replaced by one of these units. I get 2.8kw of heat yet they only consume 850w and they work down to very low external temperatures. You can buy these from Brico Depot and these days they work out the same as buying a night storage heater. Once you have spent 3 hours installing the first one you can do the rest in under an hour each. If I was building from scratch I might look at a ground heat pump but to install that type of system in to an existing house would be a nightmare. [/quote]

I'm in a similar position with wood burner and electric rads, together with acres of woodland that I'd considered using for an eco geothermal ground source heat pump; I knew an acquaintance who had one installed, but the installation eventually cost way over original estimates and a major unit (which took up what was previously the utility room) failed before installation tests were complete. It eventually gave him what he described as a great under floor background heating system, but he was a bit crestfallen.

The local developer recently has completed a few houses fitted with 'state of the art' Reversible inverter system, capable of delivering either Air-Con or underfloor heating, based on what he describes as an efficient system that satisfies all Customer requirements. Since installation costs is one of those requirements this seems the way for me to go, and I'd love to hear from anyone who has such a system installed.

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All well and good Q, the cost per metre will be directly related to the insulation of the house. Sadly it's always much more impressive to show the new pellet burner or solar than I have 2" of extruded polystyrene in my walls and my windows are tripple glazed with thermal glass and the roof has been insulated. You would need a fraction of the heat if the house was insulated properly and those savings are immediate.
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[quote user="just john "]

The local developer recently has completed a few houses fitted with 'state of the art' Reversible inverter system, capable of delivering either Air-Con or underfloor heating, based on what he describes as an efficient system that satisfies all Customer requirements. Since installation costs is one of those requirements this seems the way for me to go, and I'd love to hear from anyone who has such a system installed.

[/quote]

With state of the art insulation?

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Definitely, Teapot! Insulation is VERY important. And it's not very expensive and there's an immediate result in increased comfort. I'm currently putting more in the roof in the older part of our house.  When we extended a few years ago I had an underfloor hot water system installed and LOADS of insulation; the difference in the that part of the house is incredible. Exposed stone walls (exterior walls) are definitely out, even though they look pretty.

If I was able to afford any major changes right now I guess it would be some sort of heat exchanger and possibly solar (water) panels. These would run the underfloor heating I reckon which circulates at a lower temperature (30-35C typically). But at the moment I can't afford that and the oil boiler is running OK.

I think "some people" need to understand the difference between being obsessed and being careful, and there are more than a handful of homeowners who have been ripped-off for so-called renewable systems only to find that the major components only last 10 or 15 years.

Anyway, my advice still stands, just swap the boiler; job done in less than a day. I hope someone will eventually come on and tell us about Lambourghini without getting their head bitten off.

 

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If an answer to the original question is still relevant, I put a lamborghini in myself 12 years ago, its still going strong. I remove the burner unit and clean it out twice a year and replace the spray head annually. It comes on for 3 hrs in the morning to take the chill off the house, then goes off when the wood burner takes over.
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[quote user="Sophie666"]Has anyone experience of owning a Lambourgini Oil fired boiler? I understand they are of Italian Manufacture but I wonder if they are reliable for my second home.[/quote] If your aim is to have reliable flick of a switch central heating for your second home when you turn up for a relatively short holiday in the winter, then I would pay a bit more and buy a good French made boiler that is well supported by a local heating company. I would recommend Chappee and Geminox. depending on your budget you could fit a condensing model and benefit from up to 40% credit impots. If the house is eventually going to become a full time home then you should consider some other form of energy and as others have stated, the biggest cost savings will be realised from better insulation. At the present time some renewable energies are overpriced and many worthy people out there think they are saving the planet whilst living in a cold house paying nearly the same for fuel as they would be using gas or oil. Whatever the conditions outside, if your central heating has to run for 3 hours just to take the chill off there is something seriously amiss.
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Oil to peak in 15 years?

Didnt i hear only a couple of days ago that they reckon to have discovered oil reserves under Paris that could be bigger than those of Kuwait, or have my malarial hallucinations returned?

I le looking at some of the figures for some of these Eco investments, most nights on TF1 they do a 5 minute "C'est ma terre" showcasing the latest fruit-loop, this time it was solar powered lighting for ski pistes to be used at night, there appeared to be naff all illumination and the ski-ers all had headtorches and it was filmed by arc light.

Looking at the equipment, even if they had re-used the existing towers I reckon they had spent at least €100k,  possibly a lot more as I couldnt tell how many there were in total.

One figure I do know, unless they made an error, unlikely for a serious eco program, it produces an annual amount of 214kwh of electricity, so a saving of less than €20 over a whole year for something that is only likely to be used for a couple of months against a capital cost of how many thousand Euros?

The world has gone eco crazy, certainly some people are doing very well out of it though.

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[quote user="Théière"]All well and good Q, the cost per metre will be directly related to the insulation of the house. Sadly it's always much more impressive to show the new pellet burner or solar than I have 2" of extruded polystyrene in my walls and my windows are tripple glazed with thermal glass and the roof has been insulated. You would need a fraction of the heat if the house was insulated properly and those savings are immediate.[/quote]

One of the things all the sites mention is the importance of the insulation installed. Most seemed to base themselves on houses constructed in the last five to ten years as they are more likely, they think, to be better insulated.

Although the basic theory of the system stays the same the quality of the components vary depending on price. The more you pay it seems the more efficient gathering the solar heat and the heat exchange will become. How the heat is actually delivered to the room is also important.

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[quote user="LesFlamands"][quote user="Sophie666"]Has anyone experience of owning a Lambourgini Oil fired boiler? I understand they are of Italian Manufacture but I wonder if they are reliable for my second home.[/quote] If your aim is to have reliable flick of a switch central heating for your second home when you turn up for a relatively short holiday in the winter, then I would pay a bit more and buy a good French made boiler that is well supported by a local heating company. I would recommend Chappee and Geminox. depending on your budget you could fit a condensing model and benefit from up to 40% credit impots. If the house is eventually going to become a full time home then you should consider some other form of energy and as others have stated, the biggest cost savings will be realised from better insulation. At the present time some renewable energies are overpriced and many worthy people out there think they are saving the planet whilst living in a cold house paying nearly the same for fuel as they would be using gas or oil. Whatever the conditions outside, if your central heating has to run for 3 hours just to take the chill off there is something seriously amiss.[/quote]

I've just seen this thread, after posting on another thread about gas boilers. We have a Chappée condensing boiler.

Just to add a comment that for propane gas, the prices have increased dramatically recently - just had our new calculation of monthly payments.

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[quote user="Poolguy"]

[quote user="Quillan"]Well from what I read on the Energy Trust website and others the type of heating system (and we are not talking just water heating but house heating as well) will cost anywhere between 250 and 650 Euros (using today's exchange rate and rounding down) a square metre to install. The 'average' system costs around 450 to 500 Euros a square metre (of house size) and then, as suggested, will require a secondary heating source. To make a claim that the costs of such a system would be paid back in seven years is extremely dubious at best. To be honest if you are over 40 I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. I read an article online a year or two back from Cambridge university who claimed that just generating electricity for your home via solar panels would take an average of 80 years to get it's money back so I dread to think how long a system like this would really take.[/quote]

Here is an example of what I'm complaining about

Another doubter who is happy to call me a liar without any facts of to back it up.

Have any of those English organisations actually done any research in France?

[/quote]

I am not too sure about what your going on about in relation to France, is there something special that happens in France and no where else.

As to facts you can do your own searches on the Cambridge University research website and also the Energy Trust website yourself. Both 'organisations' have no commercial connections, they primarily carry out research enabling people to make their own decisions from their results.

As to how long it takes to get your money back on things like generating electricity via solar energy I thought the results from Cambridge were rather generous, RICS for instance believe it will take nearly 100 years.

As to proof, well you have not exactly given the names of any sources yourself were as I have mentioned the places you can look but have simply not put any links in thus enabling people to discover for themselves by searching those sites and therefore make up their own minds.

As 'another doubter' I take there is more than just me then, I wonder how many there are? At least with reversible inverter clim the figures are written on the box in plain view and I would imagine if they were wrong there would be people queuing up outside the courts to claim their money back but I have not noticed any but then that might just be me.

All the sales pitches for solar products are the same, and believe me I have heard quite a few, and always terminates at the point when you challenge the sellers claims and they counter with something along the lines of "well we don't guarantee your money back but you are helping to build a better world for your family and your fellow humans". Well considering I do not and never have considered climate change to be wholly caused by humans I consider that these type of comments are primarily aimed at the more vulnerable and gullible members of society by unscrupulous sales people.

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For the sake of the poster above and a few others besides, I would state the bleeding obvious.

Solar radiation hitting the ground in France ranges from 3.2kw/m2 up to 4.8kw/m2

In Britan the range 2.1kw/m2 up to a massive 2.8kw/m2 (source: NASA - Surface meteorology and Solar Energy Data Set)

Which goes some way to explain why there is a difference between this solution in France v UK now wouldn't it. If you don't know what that means then I have nothing further to offer.

Incidentally, I recall mentioning that PV was unviable in France in my opinion.

Good luck to the orginal poster with choosing alternative heating sources what ever they may be. Hope that its not Oil or LPG.

I agree with John (as usual) Insulate and then Insulate some more.

 

 

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[quote user="Lehaut"]If an answer to the original question is still relevant, I put a lamborghini in myself 12 years ago, its still going strong. I remove the burner unit and clean it out twice a year and replace the spray head annually. It comes on for 3 hrs in the morning to take the chill off the house, then goes off when the wood burner takes over.[/quote]

Hooray that man! That's what I wanted to hear.

As for Chappee (or any other make), les Flammards, the OP would only benefit from the 40% tax credit if it is the primary residence and that he/she actually pays tax here. The Chappee condensing boilers are pretty serious pieces of kit, one of our acquantances has one and it resembles an old red UK telephone box, but it was close to 6000€. There has been some debate as to whether it's worth getting the condensing type. In the UK apparently that's what you have to have now.

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I popped in to check for PMs and despite awesome present time pressures, quickly scanned this thread and thought, "Groan! Not this chestnut once more!"

Let's remember, central heating, whatever its type is a simple Heat In - Heat Out equation.

In order to maintain ambient room temperature to whatever the desired level might desire, one needs, firstly, to raise the mass of the fabric to a reasonable temperature and thereafter, input more heat than is escaping.

Whilst excellent insulation is a given, in relative terms of economy, with an old mas in Provence, for example, its stone construction invariably means double walls with rubble infill: thus cavity insulation is impossible. Which leaves only the two options of interior cladding: or more expensively, exterior cladding.

And, depending on the room sizes, effective insulation fom interior cladding means significant room space loss: all apart from cost.

Some base data.

The "Average" house requires a Heat Input, in colder weather, of probably  25Kw/hour heat input whilst burning. It is difficult to arrive at an average energy consumption per annum across all seasons, however, it is probably an equivalence of 20,000 KwHs - Medium Sized House. (Source: British Gas).

Let us assume for case of argument, however, it is 15,000 KWHs/annum for France.

Now most of this consumption would obviously occur over five primary heating months: October, November, December, January and February. (Depending on geographic location).

So, let's say 70% of annual heating requirement: ergo 10,500.

Thus once fabric of dwelling has been raised to desired ambient temperature, then the daily heat input requirement is circa 68 KwH.

Let's take, say Bordeaux: well South and a pretty temperate climate; however, it still needs say 50KwH/Day in the Winter.

Available Solar Radiation is a miserly 1.18 KwH: let's be kind and assume the sun shines and the cloud cover is little for ten hours per day in Winter: then one would need 4 1/4 Square metres of Solar Arrays, to replenish the Thermal Store against latent consumption. Unfortunately, in practice in December and January its less than 2.5 hours per day (mean of both) so one would need 17 square metres of solar array area.

Remember once again: Heat In- Heat Out System.

Just because you are saving the World, doesn't mean you can change the immutable laws of physics.

Calculator:http://solarelectricityhandbook.com/solar-irradiance.html

Sunshine Hours: http://www.climatetemp.info/france/bordeaux.html

Measured in kWh/m2/day onto a horizontal surface: Lille:

Jan     Feb     Mar     Apr     May     Jun

0.88      1.54     2.53     3.86      4.86      5.07            

      

Jul     Aug     Sep     Oct     Nov     Dec

5.07     4.46      2.99     1.79      1.04       0.65

Ditto: Dijon:

Jan     Feb     Mar     Apr     May     Jun

1.11      1.89     3.06     4.13       5.13     5.59

Jul     Aug     Sep     Oct     Nov     Dec

5.73      4.97     3.49     2.06      1.27       0.91     

                        

Ditto: Nantes:

Jan     Feb     Mar     Apr     May     Jun

1.02     1.76      2.89     4.02       5.03      5.6

                        

Jul     Aug     Sep     Oct     Nov     Dec

5.49      4.87      3.56     2.08     1.29      0.87

                        

Ditto: Bordeaux:

Jan     Feb     Mar     Apr     May     Jun

1.45     2.21       3.51     4.41      5.41       5.9

                            

Jul     Aug     Sep     Oct     Nov     Dec

5.96      5.29     4.04     2.55      1.61      1.18

                

Ditto: St. Etiennes:

Jan     Feb     Mar     Apr     May     Jun

1.36      2.11      3.35     4.25.     5.1       5.89

                      

Jul     Aug     Sep     Oct     Nov     Dec

6.19      5.25     3.85      2.26     1.43      1.07

     

 Ditto: Nimes:

Jan     Feb     Mar     Apr     May     Jun

1.71      2.6      3.88       4.84     5.81       6.69

                              

Jul     Aug     Sep     Oct     Nov     Dec

6.98     5.89      4.37     2.56      1.83      1.36

 

Ditto: Montpellier:

Jan     Feb     Mar     Apr     May     Jun

1.59     2.45      3.62     4.63      5.59       6.46

                              

Jul     Aug      Sep     Oct     Nov     Dec

6.72      5.71     4.27      2.51      1.72      1.31

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[quote user="Gluestick"] "Groan! Not this chestnut once more!" Well it is Christmas [:)]

And, depending on the room sizes, effective insulation fom interior cladding means significant room space loss: all apart from cost.


[/quote]

I thought that and it delayed my decision but once carried out the comfort and reduction in heating bill more than compensated and I really haven't missed the 65mm lost off the room. Done the whole house in the UK.

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All I wanted was to hear about other readers experience of using a Lambourgini Oilfired boiler.I offer my thanks to the very few people who actually answered the question.

Some people seem to have got exited about energy usage and its future but perhaps I need to explain that this is very much a second home, rarely used in winter (but with my neighbour keeping an eye on the place!) and there is already an oil fired system (tank etc) in place.

If we were there more often I would certainly have a wood burner but to change the whole heating system to an alternative form of energy is just plain daft at the moment.

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We had a top of the range Chappee boiler at our old house, they installed 3 before it worked "properly" we found it to very unreliable in a second home as it would often just cut out and even on full pelt it didn't seem to heat the house. In our new old house we have a 30 year old oil boiler that can just be kept going with regular maintenance and changing the odd part, but to get one to heat the size of our house its close to 20K and thats an awful lot of oil and maintenance bills. I'm sure in time it will need replacing but not sure wether to change to town gas or stick with oil but it won't be a chappee boiler.
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[quote user="Sophie666"]All I wanted was to hear about other readers experience of using a Lambourgini Oilfired boiler.I offer my thanks to the very few people who actually answered the question. Some people seem to have got exited about energy usage and its future but perhaps I need to explain that this is very much a second home, rarely used in winter (but with my neighbour keeping an eye on the place!) and there is already an oil fired system (tank etc) in place. If we were there more often I would certainly have a wood burner but to change the whole heating system to an alternative form of energy is just plain daft at the moment.[/quote]

You don't need to explain Sophie, it's the overriding factor of not being resident permanently. You should offer thanks to all on this thread as without all of the contributors keeping this thread buzzing your post would have sunk off the bottom of the page and gone most likely unnoticed as you have seen there are very few people who have that boiler available to make a comment.

Merry Christmas [:)]

Don't forget the scrap value of your old boiler may help towards the new one.

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[quote user="Sophie666"]All I wanted was to hear about other readers experience of using a Lambourgini Oilfired boiler.I offer my thanks to the very few people who actually answered the question.

Some people seem to have got exited about energy usage and its future but perhaps I need to explain that this is very much a second home, rarely used in winter (but with my neighbour keeping an eye on the place!) and there is already an oil fired system (tank etc) in place.

If we were there more often I would certainly have a wood burner but to change the whole heating system to an alternative form of energy is just plain daft at the moment.[/quote]

OK: as a French Heating Engineer explained it to me, the Lamborghini range of boilers are basic: and simple. No uneccessary "Bells and Whistles".

Most basic oil-fired boilers in France come with the Brûleur often as a separate component: if you look here, and expand the image of the blue boiler, then you will see a square black plate held in by four screws, with a large round hole. This is where the Brûleur fits.

For a Maison Secondaire, you may well find a new Brûleur is the (cheap) answer. Unless the boiler casting is beyond service: which is unusual. The Brûleur is really the "Heart" of the boiler, as it carries the pressure pump, jets, regulates the flame, controls heat output and so on.

All the other bits may be replaced.

Lamborghini used to tend to dominate the Brûleur market in France. Not sure if they still do.

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I saw a Dietrich online at Leroy Merlin (HERE) for about 5,690 Euros plus of course installation and commissioning (don't forget to flush and add the anti-freeze and anti-corrosion liquid to the radiator system) it outputs 33.8kw and is of course condensing. I guess that all in it would cost somewhere between 7,000 and 7,500 Euros but that is only a guesstimate.

As Gluestick mentioned if it the burner unit then I found some on the Brico Depot website (HERE).

The thing is have you only had one person inspect the boiler, if so why not get a second or even third opinion.

The thing is that IF you were interested in looking at an alternative because the boiler needs completely replacing the why not consider something like reversible inverter air conditioning. I mean for the price of just the boiler you could install something like 8 of these units in different rooms each capable of heating and cooling a room of 40m2 (look HERE). Not only would you have heat in the winter but if you suffer from high temps in the summer you have A/C as well. If you put these in and changed over to TEMPO (very cheap summer EDF but very expensive in the winter but only for 22 days electricity tariff as your not using the place in the winter) it would save you loads of money on 'fuel' as well.

All you need is a power socket indoors for each unit, a hole through the wall of about 40mm (you can rent a special drill for this called a core bit for next to nothing), a couple of brackets outside then connect the pipes and off you go. You don't even have to get a specialist to come and put the gas in as it's in the pipes already. If you are worried about the environment and carbon emissions then look at it this way, nearly 90% of electricity in France is nuclear so your saving the planet as well as there is no C02 etc. If you already have a load of heating oil you can always sell it, you might get more than you paid as well. It's just a thought that's all.

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[quote user="woolybanana"]Do you have these Q? If so, how do the running costs work out as they do use electricity. And what heat have you really been getting out of the units.[/quote]

As I said in another post I have been replacing my old electric heating radiators with these units . Given that to replace each radiator (as they are 'Hi-Tech') will cost between 800 and 1,500 Euros each I actually save some money.

Running wise, well the units I have produce 3.5kw as opposed to 2.0kw from the old radiators but then the units burn anywhere between 300 and 1650 watts (on average about 800 watts) and will run with the outside temperature down to -15 deg before you start getting problems. So your question about what are their running costs well against electric heating they can be half or  even less than what you would pay for other forms of electrical heating.

It's totally a different type of heat, it's drier for a start as they are also dehumidifiers and they don't 'blast' the air out like a fan heater, it's much more gentle. You don't get 'layers' in the room as the air is always gently moving although you don't really notice unless you stand just a couple of feet away. It's a 'nice' type of heat, very comfortable.

The thing to look at is the COP (Coefficient Of Performance) which relates to the power used to the power out so for instance if the unit burnt 1000 watts but produced 4000 watts of heat it would be said to have a COP of 4. Basically it's fair to say that anything with an average COP of 4 or greater is good. You can get ones that have very high COP's but then they are double the price so you need to work out procurement cost and running cost over the time your living in the house, the higher the COP the longer it will take to get your money back on the initial cost.

There is also a version that heats water HERE the price it says at the bottom includes installation and you get a 40% tax rebate.

 

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