New Oil fired boiler choice

[Sophie666]

Has anyone experience of owning a Lambourgini Oil fired boiler?

I understand they are of Italian Manufacture but I wonder if they are reliable for my second home.

[Poolguy]

I don't know how many times I've raised this point but it’s a lot -And it obvious that I will just have to keep on raising it.

 

'Why on earth would any thinking person buy into oil fired heating at this stage in the 21st century with 'peak oil' less than a decade away.'

 

its sheer madness. Didn't you see the price of fuel oil nearly double just less than a month ago..... Obviously not.

http://www.boilerjuice.com/heatingOilPrices.php

Why don't you look around at the alternatives?

[WJT]

Out of interest Poolguy, for an existing property with radiators what would you suggest? 

The only alternative I can see is the wood pellets and that is something that personally doesn't appeal to me so I just can't see an alternative. For a new build I would imagine the best solution would be underground heat source but perhaps the OP has an existing property like me.

[Quillan]

I think it's a bit unfair to frighten people using UK fuel prices as an example.

In the UK heating oil has indeed gone up in leaps and bounds from 41p to 70p (excluding) VAT using the chart Poolguy has given (I am working from the 1st Jan to 1st Dec to enable direct comparisons). On the other hand heating oil is a bit more expensive in France but then in the same period it's gone from 66 cents to 74 cents (it does not say if it's inclusive of TVA but the point is the price has not varied by as much as in the UK) French source (thanks Clair) http://www.developpement-durable.gouv.fr/energie/petrole/se_cons_fr.htm

Was not somebody on the forum a while back selling pellet burners from Eastern Europe?

[sid]

[quote user="Poolguy"]

I don't know how many times I've raised this point but it’s a lot -And it obvious that I will just have to keep on raising it.

 

'Why on earth would any thinking person buy into oil fired heating at this stage in the 21st century with 'peak oil' less than a decade away.'

 

its sheer madness. Didn't you see the price of fuel oil nearly double just less than a month ago..... Obviously not.

http://www.boilerjuice.com/heatingOilPrices.php

Why don't you look around at the alternatives?

[/quote]

As Quillan has already pointed out the fuel price has gone up, but "only" from 68 (I paid in September) to around 75 cents per litre now (that's here in Poitou Charente).

As to why someone would want to buy an oil boiler, well, presuambly because in the short term at least, it would be the easiest solution. It's for a replacement as I understand, so the storage tank and radiators are already there. A boiler can be obtained at discount prices for under 2000€.

I'll be interested to hear what the alternatives are. I have oil at the moment (backed up by woodburners, so I'm not using a huge amount of oil), but I'd like to plan for this "end of days" scenario in ten years time [:-))], but I'm betting that it will cost more than 2 grand. No, I'm not sticking my head in the sand, but I would need to see the payback figures, if any, before "investing" in geothermal, solar et etc.

My neighbour has recently installed solar panels and he always tells me about the free showers he now enjoys. His installation cost 12000€ (!!) so it'll be a while before his showers are cheaper than my oil-fired ones!

 

[WJT]

Yes and that is just "free" hot water if he's lucky! No way can solar heat a house on it's own, it needs help in cold weather for just the water.

[Quillan]

If you are looking at an alternative you might consider reversible inverter clim. We had electric heating backed up by paraffin heaters and a mega log burner. Each of our 2kw electric heaters has gradually been replaced by one of these units. I get 2.8kw of heat yet they only consume 850w and they work down to very low external temperatures. You can buy these from Brico Depot and these days they work out the same as buying a night storage heater. Once you have spent 3 hours installing the first one you can do the rest in under an hour each. If I was building from scratch I might look at a ground heat pump but to install that type of system in to an existing house would be a nightmare.

I always think that as you get older you need to think in 'now' terms and not payback over 20 odd years as you might be dead by then and the only people to really benefit are those that live in the house afterwards. I think these units are very good and I have seen a big drop in my electricity bill, so much so they have been round twice to read and check the meter because they think I am up to something. Mine will be coming up to two years old next year so I have 12 months of readings to compare against previous years and I can see an immediate reduction, about 40%. Shame UlsterRugby is no longer around as he went down the same route and would probably confirm my results. As to solar stuff, well I would not install it myself because its just too expensive but if I wanted to move and there were two houses I liked that were identical I would pick the one with the solar power. As somebody pointed out 12k to have solar heating installed would put a log burner in just about every room and pay for all the logs you need probably for the next 25 years.

[Théière]

[quote user="Quillan"]

 As somebody pointed out 12k to have solar heating installed would put a log burner in just about every room and pay for all the logs you need probably for the next 25 years.

[/quote]

As long as it's only 3 rooms.

3x log burners and correct flue pipes + ramonuer 6000 euros

6 stere of logs per winter (2 each burner) at 50 euros/stere = 300 euros/year (you'll run out in 20 years)

[Quillan]

[quote user="Théière"][quote user="Quillan"]

 As somebody pointed out 12k to have solar heating installed would put a log burner in just about every room and pay for all the logs you need probably for the next 25 years.

[/quote]

As long as it's only 3 rooms.

3x log burners and correct flue pipes + ramonuer 6000 euros

6 stere of logs per winter (2 each burner) at 50 euros/stere = 300 euros/year (you'll run out in 20 years)

[/quote]

Yes well you get the general idea, some of us may well be dead by then, it was not meant as an exact amount. If you believe some 'people' say then down south where we are there will be a desert in 10 years time (although there is no sign of it today [;-)]) so we may not need any form of heating at all. [:)]

[sid]

Quillan, so right about the 20-year term!!

[WJT]

[quote user="Théière"][quote user="Quillan"]

 As somebody pointed out 12k to have solar heating installed would put a log burner in just about every room and pay for all the logs you need probably for the next 25 years.

[/quote]

As long as it's only 3 rooms.

3x log burners and correct flue pipes + ramonuer 6000 euros

6 stere of logs per winter (2 each burner) at 50 euros/stere = 300 euros/year (you'll run out in 20 years)

[/quote]

But solar heating isn't sufficient on it's own to run central heating is it? So you still have to include some running costs?

[Théière]

Yep, still need help from somewhere but what will oil cost in a few years time?

[Just Chris]

PoolGuy, "Peak Oil" has been a "decade away" for decades, and is no closer than it ever was. The high cost of oil is another matter entirely.

Chris

[Théière]

Either way using re-newables (wood etc) covers both out comes.

[Poolguy]

Yes I've stirred it up again, and that's how it should be.

Does anyone actually think that UK oil prices are nolt linked to French prices and that the trend is not similarly upwards.

The more times this is debated the more the general populous will get to question to conventional solutions because they are just unsustainable.

If anyone looking at oil heating cannot see how their pocket is going to be assaulted by ‘Big Oil’ then they deserve to be fleeced, I fear. There have been warnings and information available for decades for folk to prepare and to choose.

Anyone obsessed with 'payback' looking at 'whole of life cost' will have their question answered, by doing their own research. Incidentally, what is the 'payback' on oil - pollution, wild weather changes, what does that all cost- ('oooHHh its not my fault' says joe average, its all industry and government’s fault.....;;;yeah right!)

As to what ARE the ALTERNATIVES.....  well

There are plenty, but every situation is different needing a different mix of energy sources. So I'm not offering free, 'fits all' advice here, that's a job for an expert to design a solution to each situation. What I will say is that the ‘ideal’ solution is nearly never OIL and just as never LPG.

As for my situation, I do in fact heat my house with solar (WJT hasn’t a clue what he’s saying) assisted by whole wood burning. I’m more than happy to say that I will be enjoying the fact, that in a bit more than 4 years I will have reached the point where I am ahead meaning that it took about 7 years to amortise my investment. It has to be said that this is the situation for me and in no way will resemble the situation for another design at another place. There is no standard solution so there is no standard outcome.

If anyone really wants the answers then the first step is to ask….. but, an answer cannot be offered until a specific site study of the situation is done. Anything else is just hot air, and not the type required.

 

edit. Chris ad Julie, seem to be happy to gamble the future of everyone based on the lack of precision of prophecy. Dear me I'm unhappy to say that I don't share your scepticism nor optimism. I'm certain that 'peak oil' will arrive in my lifetime as I have a more than competent grasp of arithmetic. Comes in useful when multiplication meets division.

[sid]

The prices may be linked but they're still not the same, fuel duties play a big part in the UK hence the difference in diesel for cars.

I think you need to consider the differing situations here too; as Quillan has pointed out many of us haven't got 20 years left!! [:-))]

On a major renovation for a young family you are right to direct us towards renewables, but the costs are beyond many people's pockets, and I still think that to answer the simple original question about a replacement boiler I would say just change the boiler, and reconsider in say 5 year's time.

Oil prices have gone up and will continue to do so; agreed. I paid 68 cents in September compared with 54 cents in September 2004. Whilst there have been some huge peaks inbetween, it's not the massive increase forecast even back then.

Are you seriously advising the OP to forget the simple, quick, and relatively cheap short-term solution? And spend how much instead? Surely it depends what his/her plans are for the house? If you move out next year I really doubt that you'd get all of your money back.

Edit: not so much an obession... but I do like to get value for my dwindling money!!

[Poolguy]

Yes Sid you are obsessed.

I said 'whole of life cost', and that includes the lifetime each person has to get service from the installation. Do the arithmatic.

I am serious about it. Sadly there very few like me.

 

 

[Théière]

[quote user="sid"]

Edit: not so much an obession... but I do like to get value for my dwindling money!!

[/quote]

Who doesen't so Insulate, Insulate, Insulate, swap single glazing for double or triple. Insulate all rooms where possible. Why do they still sell placo with expanded foam on the back when extruded is so much better and doesn't turn into millions of little balls as it breaks down.

[WJT]

Thanks for pointing out that I don't know what I (she) is talking about, it is just something that I have read. I read something recently that said in a lot of cases solar has been a waste of money. I read in the Connexion (I believe) a few months back that particularly in France where the government has rebates of renewable energy that there has been a lot of poor installations. There was also a warning to say that solar may be good (if installed correctly) in the summer months to heat water but will highly unlikely be used to heat a house and is quite expensive to install. So it is just something that I read certainly not something I have experience with. [Www]

It was something I was quite keen on when I first saw the discussions on the forum and I even sent you (Poolguy) a PM about our situation (as you suggested on the forum) and I never got a clear answer but had assumed it just wouldn't work!

Regards, WJT.[:)]

[Poolguy]

WJT

I apologise for the assuming a gender without clear evidence. Bad mistake.

To be clear/

You may be confusing Solar PV with Solar Thermal - common misconception.

There have been lots and lots of poor installations of Photovoltaic to be sure. And I would add to that the arithmetic doesn't arrive at a break point, its not a good bet at this time in my opinion.

Solar thermal on the other hand, is relatively simple and much less likely to suffer such trouble. There are a number of reasons for that to do with basic physics.

The warning you have read probably had no facts whatsoever to validate the claim and so should be taken with more than a pinch. Whereas the results of my system and those of a few others, are published on the net for anyone to see for themselves and to analyse. This is live data not the Bulls£$t which is published by other promoters and the uninformed opinions from doubters. As you can clearly read from the previous poster, most people read what they want to hear and not often what I have said or written. You will never hear me say for example that Solar thermal is a 'complete' solution.

I can say this because I have the data, others cannot because they don't.

I'm sorry that you did not get a satisfactory answer from me when you inquired - I get a lots of requests and usually I refer them to the nearest expert installer, as I have said, I can offer very little relevant advice until a site survey is done and some information is know about the situation. So if you care to repeat your question then I'll try to do better.

 

[PaulT]

[quote user="Sophie666"]Has anyone experience of owning a Lambourgini Oil fired boiler? I understand they are of Italian Manufacture but I wonder if they are reliable for my second home.[/quote]

Sophie I will bring this thread back to your original post......

I think the OP was asking about oil fired boilers period, not a debate on whether she should buy one or not - think she has already decided to and simply wants peoples recommendations.

In our maison secondaire is a De Diretrich boiler that according to the paperwork was installed in 2002. It seems fine to me and no doubt designs will have progressed in 8 years.

Lambourginis, being of Italian manufacture, would not worry me as such after all all countries make good and bad things.

What would be helpful to you was for someone to post who has one - which I think you were asking for in the first place.

Paul

 

[woolybanana]

Poolguy, could you perhaps post some links to good information sites on solar panel heating of the type your have - for houses svp?

[Quillan]

Well from what I read on the Energy Trust website and others the type of heating system (and we are not talking just water heating but house heating as well) will cost anywhere between 250 and 650 Euros (using today's exchange rate and rounding down) a square metre to install. The 'average' system costs around 450 to 500 Euros a square metre (of house size) and then, as suggested, will require a secondary heating source. To make a claim that the costs of such a system would be paid back in seven years is extremely dubious at best. To be honest if you are over 40 I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. I read an article online a year or two back from Cambridge university who claimed that just generating electricity for your home via solar panels would take an average of 80 years to get it's money back so I dread to think how long a system like this would really take.

[Panda]

[quote user="Poolguy"]

Yes Sid you are obsessed.

I said 'whole of life cost', and that includes the lifetime each person has to get service from the installation. Do the arithmatic.

I am serious about it. Sadly there very few like me.

[/quote]

You're serious about it cos your selling it, n'est pas? 

The costs are just too much for most unless you DIY and this option is coming closer as the brico's start to gear up for people wanting to become 'self sufficient....

[Poolguy]

[quote user="Quillan"]Well from what I read on the Energy Trust website and others the type of heating system (and we are not talking just water heating but house heating as well) will cost anywhere between 250 and 650 Euros (using today's exchange rate and rounding down) a square metre to install. The 'average' system costs around 450 to 500 Euros a square metre (of house size) and then, as suggested, will require a secondary heating source. To make a claim that the costs of such a system would be paid back in seven years is extremely dubious at best. To be honest if you are over 40 I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. I read an article online a year or two back from Cambridge university who claimed that just generating electricity for your home via solar panels would take an average of 80 years to get it's money back so I dread to think how long a system like this would really take.[/quote]

Here is an example of what I'm complaining about

Another doubter who is happy to call me a liar without any facts of to back it up.

Have any of those English organistations actually done any research in France?