New French order NOR : DEVO0809422A , micro station d'epuration.

[mayennesat]

Info for all with regards to the new French order NOR : DEVO0809422A , which includes the micro station d'epuration.

For 18 months we have had a new Uni small waste treatment plant purchased from the UK waiting to be installed here at Vauce but Spanc and DDAS here in Mayenne refused to allow it for "non conformity". The system has its CE certificate and EN 12566-3 tests fully completed and passed with flying colours.

Because of this constant refusal no matter what proof was given to them of its conformity within Europe, we actioned a complaint against them using Solvit UK and Solvit France and with their considerable amount of hard work, we have forced the change noted below from Solvit. If anyone wishes a French and or English copy of the order contact us and we will email or post out to them. No huge filter bed required now. We will soon be on their success page, http://ec.europa.eu/solvit/site/success/index_en.htm

Quote from Solvit to us:

"As you know, we submitted your case on SOLVIT a while ago but unfortunately, it has taken over the 10 weeks deadline to get an answer from the French authorities.  This is mainly because of the complex nature of the case and the need for the French SOLVIT Centre to get an extension of the 10 weeks. We have got what I am sure you will agree, is  very good news. The French have agreed to accept the products with EN 12566-3 standard and there is therefore now no need to comply with French national standard.  However, because of the need to conform with environmental protection, the French have proposed a new simplified procedure to address this. They have passed a new law which came into force on 9th October and this will make the marketing and installation of your product much easier for your company. The European Commission has approved this new simplified procedure. The French SOLVIT  (who has been very supportive in pursuing our complaint) has delayed proposing a solution to our case until concrete measures were put in place. Their proposed solution is in the email below and a copy of the French decree is attached for information.

[Following detailed opinions, the French authorities have significantly modified their text in order to provide a simplified authorisation procedure for authorising the installation of sewage systems with products that are lawfully produced or marketed in another Member State or which are in compliance with harmonised standards, like EN 12566-3. The authorisation procedure is necessary for environmental protection and there are proposals for a new law to address this situation. the text modifying the previous procedure came into force the 9th of October. "

[pachapapa]

Sorry didn't notice this thread and posted elsewhere;

http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/3/1886246/ShowPost.aspx#1886246

[cooperlola]

Well done you, mayennesat.  This could help quite a few of us facing ludicrous bills for fosse replacement.  We had one of these in the UK for several years and they work fine.

[shimble]

yes i would like copies of both the english and french versions of your report please

[seleandijon]

For the very latest text in French go to http://www.klar-environnement.com/Fosses_Septiques_Dernieres_Reglementations.aspx

for the text in English go to http://www.klar-environment.com/septic_tanks_france_latest_regulations.aspx

Bear in mind though that the French are not accepting all CE FR EN12566-3 certified systems - only ones meeting certain criteria etc and that they have verified conform with what they require. This includes minimum chamber sizes - so that is bad news for a certain UK manufactured "pointy" one! They are also insisting that the supplier takes full responsibility for any failed units, so be careful not to order from any old "go between" who could close if things turn bad for them.

AND they will only accept outflow direct under special circumstances where there is no other option too - so be careful that you are following the French rules!

[mayennesat]

I have the UK supplied Uni system which is manufactured in ireland.

Solvit France have used all this systems certificates for its 6, 10 and 12 person units and their EN12566-3, 38 week tests as the template for the change in the French regs.

Without the action of Solvit on our behalf for the last 20 weeks, this new French order would not have been forthcoming so we know our system will be installed. It is Solvit that has forced the French to accept the European rules. The only reason they exist is to point out to their respective countries any breach of euro regulations. The Uni system is the reason for the new French rules.

Klaregsters results fall short of our system but thank you anyway.

 

 

 

 

 

[pachapapa]

[quote user="mayennesat"]

I have the UK supplied Uni system which is manufactured in ireland.

Solvit France have used all this systems certificates for its 6, 10 and 12 person units and their EN12566-3, 38 week tests as the template for the change in the French regs.

Without the action of Solvit on our behalf for the last 20 weeks, this new French order would not have been forthcoming so we know our system will be installed. It is Solvit that has forced the French to accept the European rules. The only reason they exist is to point out to their respective countries any breach of euro regulations. The Uni system is the reason for the new French rules.

Klaregsters results fall short of our system but thank you anyway.

[/quote]

 

 

 

Frankly although of anecdotal interest I find your claims regarding Solvit participation at best misplaced at worst erroneous.

The crucial prescription arrêté was stopped in its tracks on the 1st August 2008 due to an "avis circonstancié" raised by Belgium, Germany and the European Commission.

http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/tris/pisa/app/search/printable.cfm?fuseaction=pisa_notif_overview&iYear=2008&iNum=333&lang=FR&sNLang=FR

So Solvit were involved some 40 weeks later!

Ding,ding,ring my bell.[:D]

 

 

 

 

[mayennesat]

As usual when you go to forums, you always get some form of stick by people so we will not post any more here. If anyone requires the English translation of the latest release, then just email us.

As for your "message". We engaged Solvits assistance in May 2009. Here is part of an email from farina.boardwell and Celia.Kissoon at Solvit in the UK received by us last week. If you wish to contact them at

UK SOLVIT Centre
BIS
1-19 Victoria Street
London SW1H OET
and call them erroneous and misplaced, please do so.

http://ec.europa.eu/solvit/site/about/index_en.htm

 "As you know, we submitted your case on SOLVIT a while ago but unfortunately, it has taken over the 10 weeks deadline to get an answer from the French authorities.  This is mainly because of the complex nature of the case and the need for the French SOLVIT Centre to get an extension of the 10 weeks. We have got what I am sure you will agree, is  very good news. The French have agreed to accept the products with EN 12566-3 standard and there is therefore now no need to comply with French national standard.  However, because of the need to conform with environmental protection, the French have proposed a new simplified procedure to address this. They have passed a new law which came into force on 9th October. The European Commission has approved this new simplified procedure. The French SOLVIT  (who has been very supportive in pursuing our complaint) has delayed proposing a solution to our case until concrete measures were put in place. Their proposed solution is in the email below and a copy of the French decree is attached for information. "

The latest release, title below, in French, is at http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=JORFTEXT000021125109

ARRETE
Arrêté du 7 septembre 2009 fixant les prescriptions techniques applicables aux installations d'assainissement non collectif recevant une charge brute de pollution organique inférieure ou égale à 1,2 kg/j de DBO5

NOR: DEVO0809422A   Version consolidée au 10 octobre 2009

[pachapapa]

I have been following the progress of the ANC legislation for some three years.

I can see no point in me communicating with Solvit.

I get the impression that they delayed proposing a solution to your case until such time as concrete measures were put in place.

I get the impression that Solvit had absolutely no participation in the drafting of the french legislation.

At the time of the "avis circonstancié" an attempt was made to ascertain the reasons for the objection by Belgium and Germany.

The Commission in a reasoned reply indicated that they were not permitted to inform for confidential reasons.

The reply from the EC can be read at:

http://fr.calameo.com/read/0000073189d09fade8e59

At the termination of the status quo period the french reply was still unsatisfactory and the period was extended with the Commission joining in the renewed

"avis circonstancié" together with the original objectors Belgium and Germany.

An extraordinary resolution of the impasse was eventually to take place with an Ammendment in the French Senate being added to a Bill being read in the Senate.

Everyone expected Minister Borloo to throw a "wobbly" in the Congress of Deputies and strike down the rogue Ammendment.

But NO it whistled through without hindrance.

Finally the matter was resolved without anyone losing face.[:D]

[pachapapa]

So that you can understand more fully the importance of the Ammendment adopted by the Senate in the long MicroStep Saga,

please find below an account of the proceedings on that fateful day.

Amendement du SENAT

audience du 02 février 2009

L'amendement n° 614 rectifié bis, présenté par MM. César, Grignon, Vasselle et Lefèvre et Mme Sittler, est ainsi libellé :

Compléter le cinquième alinéa de cet article par une phrase ainsi rédigée :

Dans la mesure où les systèmes de prétraitement et de traitement de la pollution de moins de 50 équivalent-habitant entrent dans le cadre de la directive 89/106/CEE du Conseil du 21 décembre 1988 modifiée par la directive 93/68/CEE du Conseil du 22 juillet 1993 relative au rapprochement des dispositions législatives, réglementaires et administratives des États membres concernant les produits de construction, les dispositifs d'assainissement ayant la marque « CE » et respectant les performances épuratoires fixées par la réglementation seront agréés sans protocole complémentaire.

La parole est à M. Gérard César.

M. Gérard César. Les assainissements non collectifs représentent en France plus de 5 millions d'installations et notre pays ne peut rester plus longtemps en marge des directives européennes. Les services publics d’assainissement non collectif, les SPANC, imposent aux administrés des techniques hors normes et très souvent inadaptées, qui n’offrent aucune garantie quant au traitement de la pollution, surtout celle d’origine domestique. Ce problème donne une mauvaise image de la France, au niveau européen, pour le traitement des eaux résiduaires, s’agissant des installations de moins de 2 000 équivalents habitants.

La norme européenne NFEN 12566–3 impose aux États membres du Comité européen de normalisation électrotechnique, le CEN-CENELEC, de supprimer tous les textes en contradiction avec la norme européenne du 1er juillet 2008, laquelle précise que les filtres à sable sont aujourd'hui interdits.

Le marquage « CE » est validé par un organisme certificateur. En France, il s’agit du Centre scientifique et technique du bâtiment, le CSTB, ou du Centre d’études et de recherches de l’industrie du béton, le CERIB. En cas de défaillance du droit national, le droit européen s'applique.

J’ajoute que ces installations ont un avantage important, celui d’avoir un faible coût énergétique et de permettre la récupération de l’eau traitée pour l’arrosage des espaces verts.

M. le président. Quel est l’avis du Gouvernement ?

M. Bruno Sido, rapporteur. Notre collègue Gérard César soulève un problème très réel, qui concerne le respect par les normes françaises du marquage « CE » applicable aux petites stations d’épuration. Nous avons tous des exemples en tête. Son amendement, finalement, tend à prévoir que les dispositifs d’assainissement doivent être marqués du signe « CE » et, dès lors, être agréés sans protocole supplémentaire.

La commission souhaiterait entendre l’avis du Gouvernement.

M. le président. Quel est l’avis du Gouvernement ?

Mme Chantal Jouanno, secrétaire d'État. Ce sujet est complexe. Dans la mesure où M. César a accepté de rectifier son amendement par l’ajout des mots « les dispositifs d’assainissement ayant le marquage “CE” et respectant les performances épuratoires fixées par la réglementation seront agréés sans protocole complémentaire », le Gouvernement émet un avis favorable.

M. le président. Quel est maintenant l’avis de la commission ?

M. Bruno Sido, rapporteur. Après avoir entendu le Gouvernement, la commission émet un avis favorable.

M. le président. Je mets aux voix l'amendement n° 614 rectifié bis.

L'amendement est adopté.

[seleandijon]

Well said Pachapapa,

Solvit on this one was definitely "right place, right time!" and IMHO can take no credit for this change.

HOWEVER - we have also been following this saga - and France has still managed to get the CE to accept that France gets the final say on which units will be specifically AUTHORISED.

Including some of their own requirements that will EXCLUDE some EN 12566-3 certified units from complying, AND they have the right to REMOVE a unit/manufacturer from the APPROVED LIST for a whole variety of reasons as they go along.

The point being - regardless of which unit you choose, it may be on the list one week - and off the next! Just be certain NOT to buy one that CANNOT EVER appear on the approved list.

This would appear to include a certain UK unit that, shall we say, is diamond shaped . . . The internal volumes would appear to be incompatible with the requirements.

The Klargester units should be ok - Certainly the BioTec - although the smaller BioDiscs may struggle with the internal volumes requirements too.

The Uni system that mayennesat has uses a technology that the French don't currently mention - so this is one that needs to wait to get on the list before considering it!

I guess this leaves us with a situation much as we have had up to now - CONFUSION!

So if you want to buy and install a mini domestic wastewater treatment unit, do so!

Be sure to chose one from a big manufacturer with a long track record, that would seem to have a chance of getting on the approved list at some point and most importantly that you have confidence in to perform to spec in your specific circumstances. If this involves variable loads (ie variable residency) or a lower residency than the unit is designed for (ie if there are two of you most of the time and the unit is rated for 6) then avoid the simple blown air only units (boues activées) as they are known to STRUGGLE to meet MINUMUM requirements.

Choose instead a unit with some sort of fixed bed biological reactor . . . . to see and compare the different technolgies try http://www.klar-environment.com/wwtp_comparisons.aspx

I'm not saying that the klargester units are the only ones available - just that they are an option that should get on the approved list and that are good value for the stability of results obtained.

What EN12566-3 was supposed to acheive was a complete move to an obligation of tested minimum results - leaving the technological side open to any developments as time went along - because lets face it - any of these units have to be maintained or they will not perform to specification.

Where France has ended up with these latest regulations is with a poor & complicated adaptation of the rules - some progress - but not great and certainly NOT definitive!  

Lots of "jobs for the boys" for many years ahead, at all levels - so the ADMINISTRATION did win, after all!

[AliMac]

Where can we find out who's systems are on the list?

[broy]

I'm an idiot and don't quite understand.  Are microstations now

acceptable if they have EN 12566-3, or is this standard still

meaningless in France?

[seleandijon]

The European certification is in effect currently meaningless still in France.

There is no list yet published of French "approved" units - and this will take months to publish despite the "law" giving it time limits - if it happens within these time limits i will eat this laptop - without gravy.

Even when the list is published - any unit could be removed at any time - so you order on Tuesday - it is removed on Thursday - Tough.

As i said in a previous post - there are rules for how these units must be installed - there are then rules on maintaining them - and EXACTLY THE SAME AS UP TO NOW - the only requirement for any system is whether it performs within specifications.

I don't see how any certification of conformity can possibly be validated, ever, as if the unit you have bought is removed from the list - you are uncertified.

This is an entirely unworkable and confusing state of affairs that the French have produced.

This is even worse than where things have been up to now. At least up to now most local SPANK's have simply shrugged and accepted any system as long as it wasn't polluting. Now they have a set of rules that by nature change every week. IMPOSSIBLE to implement.

The bottom line is - if you have to do something about your wastewater treatment choose a unit with a good track record, that theoretically is likely to be "accepted" and using a technology that is known to perform in the circumstances you have. Fit it intelligently, maintain it correctly, don't pollute and see what happens. 

Maybe over the next 2-3 years things will be "clarified" if you will excuse the pun . . . . . .

 

[broy]

Is there any sign of this fabled list yet?

[pachapapa]

[quote user="broy"]Is there any sign of this fabled list yet?
[/quote]

No not yet.....and a lot of water under the bridge.....prognostications have been made and until now no list.

Even french senators are growing restless and quizical, presumably prompted by the µStep lobby.

So as we enter the summer season a question in the Senate attached below with link to the Journel Officiel.

The substance of the question: Verify from the minister progress on list of agréments.

Assainissement autonome et micro-stations

13 ème législature

Question écrite n° 13903 de M. Marcel Rainaud (Aude - SOC) publiée dans le JO Sénat du 17/06/2010 - page 1506

M. Marcel Rainaud attire l'attention de M. le ministre d'État, ministre de l'écologie, de l'énergie, du développement durable et de la mer, en charge des technologies vertes et des négociations sur le climat, sur la question de l'assainissement autonome et des micro-stations. L'arrêté ministériel du 7 septembre 2009 fixe les prescriptions techniques applicables aux installations d'assainissement non collectif. Il établit que les dispositifs de traitement des eaux usées domestiques pourront faire l'objet d'un agrément, la liste des dispositifs agréés devant être publiée au Journal officiel de la République française. Or, à ce jour, aucune liste n'a été publiée, mettant dans l'expectative un grand nombre d'usagers dans l'attente de l'agrément des micro-stations. Ces dispositifs, pourtant reconnus comme efficaces dans le traitement des effluents domestiques, restent non reconnus par les services publics d'assainissement non collectif, lesquels s'appuient sur l'arrêté ministériel précité et son annexe 1. C'est pourquoi il lui demande de bien vouloir lui indiquer quelle sera la liste des dispositifs agréés publiée au Journal officiel et à quelle échéance.

En attente de réponse du Ministère de l'écologie, de l'énergie, du développement durable et de la mer, en charge des technologies vertes et des négociations sur le climat En attente d'une réponse ministérielle

http://www.senat.fr/questions/base/2010/qSEQ100613903.html

[pachapapa]

The following letter appeared today friday 25/06/10. in a professional SPANC forum.

Interesting to note that the agréments are numbered 06 and 07 and also that only the F4 béton and plastic products qualify currently for the agrément. In the letter it is assumed that being published in the JO is imminent. One would assume that all systems agrées would simultaneously appearin the JO.

Madame, Monsieur
 
Nous avons le plaisir de vous annoncer la réception ce jour de notre notification de l’agrément des  stations d’épuration suivantes :
 

BIOFRANCE F4                                Numéro national d’agrément :  2010-006 

BIOFRANCE PLAST F4                   Numéro national d’agrément :  2010-007

Vous trouverez en annexe pour votre complète information copie de l’avis de notification

Ces deux agréments prendront leurs effets officiels et publics sitôt leur parution prochaine au Journal Officiel de la République Française
 
Les règles d’extrapolation en matière de dimensionnement des stations n’étant pas encore validées par les ministères, seules les stations ayant effectivement été testées sur plate forme accréditée sont retenues, raison pour laquelle la notification fait état du refus d’agrément  pour les autres dispositifs de traitement présentés ( gamme jusque 20 EH )

Nous disposons donc désormais de deux produits agréés, un en béton, l’autre en plastique ( PPH ).
 
Nous autorisons les copies de la présente notification, pour autant que de besoin et pour valoir ce que de droit.

Le site internet du gouvernement pourra être consulté

http://www.assainissement-non-collectif.developpement-durable.gouv.fr

Dès parution au J.O. il affichera toutes les stations agréées et les fiches techniques descriptives correspondantes."

[pachapapa]

Pas de parution du J.O. le Lundi.

Be patient![:D]

[pachapapa]

[quote user="pachapapa"]

Pas de parution du J.O. le Lundi.

Be patient![:D]

[/quote]

And nowt today!

But snippets from parties with vested interests;

BRETAGNE EPUR est distributeur dans les quatre départements Bretons des systèmes d'assainissement des eaux usées de la société Belge EPUR SA. La technologie utilisée est celle de l'assainissement en culture fixée immergée aérobie, biologique, sans ajout d'activateurs.

 DERNIERE MINUTE : NOTIFICATION
DE L'AGREMENT DE NOS MODELES :
      - BIOFRANCE F4 :          Agrément N° 2010-006
      - BIOFRANCE Plast F4 : Agrément N° 2010-007

http://assainissement-epur.com/

Bionest PE-5 a l'agrément

Agrément n° 2010-02 : COMPACT'O modèle 4 ST2 : filière compacte sur laine de roche
Well that makes 4 out of 7 and rumour has it that the other 3 are based on "rubbish" zeolite co-co-nut matting technology.

[pachapapa]

The agréments to date seem to be limited to a maximum of 5 EH.

Maybe the bigger Sh1te Guzzlers are destined to go the long way round; 44 weeks.

[pachapapa]

Another agrément No 2010- 03.

AGREMENT ANC :

LA MINI STATION D'EPURATION TOPAZE T5FS EST AGREEE (n°2010-03) La mini station d'épuration TOPAZE T5 filtre à sable a obtenu l'agrément du Ministère de la Santé et du Ministère de l'Ecologie en date du 23/06/2010 sous le numéro 2010-03 suivant l'arrêté du 7 septembre 2009. Neve Environement est dans les premières sociétés Françaises à obtenir ce agrément.

[pachapapa]

The 8 MWWTPs involving 6 vendors are available for perusal on the Environment Minister"s web site. The announcement in the JO is imminent.

http://www.assainissement-non-collectif.developpement-durable.gouv.fr/article.php3?id_article=185

[pachapapa]

The agréments mentioned above are available for inspection in the Journel Officiel of the French Republic, dated friday  09/07/10.

Le 09 juillet 2010 - Edition numéro 0157            

avis divers

ministère de l'écologie, de l'énergie, du développement durable et de la mer, en charge des technologies vertes et des négociations sur le climat

 138 Avis relatif à l'agrément de dispositifs de traitement des eaux usées domestiques et fiches techniques correspondantes
 139 Avis relatif à l'agrément de dispositifs de traitement des eaux usées domestiques et fiches techniques correspondantes
 140 Avis relatif à l'agrément de dispositifs de traitement des eaux usées domestiques et fiches techniques correspondantes
 141 Avis relatif à l'agrément de dispositifs de traitement des eaux usées domestiques et fiches techniques correspondantes
 142 Avis relatif à l'agrément de dispositifs de traitement des eaux usées domestiques et fiches techniques correspondantes
 143 Avis relatif à l'agrément de dispositifs de traitement des eaux usées domestiques et fiches techniques correspondantes

The Journel Officiel can be accessed through the following link:

http://www.journal-officiel.gouv.fr/frameset.html

Just click on the Aujourd'hui option and then scroll down to Items 138-139. Each item number is a live link to the agrément for each manufacturer.

It may be noted that no units having a capacity greater than 5 EH have to date been approved.

However the 2010-0001 application has still to be released; reliable sources indicate that the manufacturer of the coco mat filter unit is waiting until approval is obtained for all size units up to the 20 EH maximum contemplated in the Assainissement Non Collectif reglamentary provisions.

[Millman]

CAn you advise what product I should be looking for in UK ?

 

Many thanks

[Quillan]

I think that as this is an English speaking forum for English people in France it might be a good idea if you gave an overview of all this in plain English as some of the French used may well be beyond the abilities of some of the members. I am sure however that people do appreciate the effort you have made in finding this information.