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tony bushell
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[quote user="aunt sally"] it  looks like a very expensive venture

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The electrician I am using for our house will put one in for you for 32,000€ :-)

Leroy Merlin will sell you a 3KW kit for 18,000€

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[quote user="aunt sally"]our neighbour has just had it installed on a new build wine store 1000 sq metres and we were told that the edf will harvest the generated electricity and re distribute it  looks like a very expensive venture
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For harvest, read purchase the electricity. Feeding the extra back to the grid is the only way to get any payback. In the UK the system can pay for itself, don't know about France.

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Somebody will correct me if I am wrong but if you are already connected to French 'grid' you can't install such a system and then go 'off grid'. By this I mean you are forced to sell your electricity to EDF then buy it back, you can't disconnect from the grid and store your own electricity (in batteries for example) and use it when you want. I looked in to this a few years ago and the 'payback' on this system is not as quick as the sellers would have you believe. I seem to remember reading a report by Cambridge University that its actually somewhere between 50 and 80 years. I know technology has moved on since then but for me the technology isn't quite there yet. Another thing is that if this is all so good and saves loads of money and is great for the environment then why don't they make it compulsory for all new builds.

Also another alarming thing is that during a conversation with one of the 'directors' of EDF who stayed here last year they don't sell these system either directly or indirectly via agents. This came about half way through a meal when I had to leave the table to answer the phone and it was yet another plonker trying to sell me such a system claiming they were an EDF approved agent. These companies are like those that send Mrs 'Q' letters which look like a bill but it's actually a ploy to get you to sign up for plumbing insurance.

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I recall a recent report (can't find it now worse luck) saying the PV could achive grid parity in a litle as 10 years in the Southen Med (eg Greece) but for France, Spain, Italy etc the technology won't be there for at least 20 years.  This was NOT talking about payback of the initial system but the cost of producing a kilowatt of electricity.  So, in France you get a subsidy for every kW you produce and sell to EDF.  This subsidy has to come from everybody else's bill.  This amount varies depending if it is a new build with PV or PV added to an existing building.  The first is quite generous, the latter, well, no so much.  Even so, as Q says, the real payback time of these systems is impossibly long even with the artificially uplifted price you receive from the electricity and how long  will that last? or a panel need replacing?

The other thing which I wonder about is, although these panels are  supposed to be 'Green', is the shocking cost to the environment in extracting the materials  to make them, from the ultra pure silicon to the gold, gallium and arsenic etc for the photocells and semiconductors.

If I were to do something like this (and it's rapidly rising in my To Do List) I would install solar heating for hot water etc.  Much lower cost and instantly starts to payback.

EDIT:   Found the article I was thinking of http://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/energy/renewables/photovoltaic-grid-parity

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[quote user="Quillan"]

Another thing is that if this is all so good and saves loads of money and is great for the environment then why don't they make it compulsory for all new builds.

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In the UK it is required to install "renewables" and that has spread from the large developments of multi occupancy to domestic now. Just another EU idea the French seldom adopt with any vigor.

Fitting one of those units that lowers the voltage slightly seems a good way to lower energy consumption with immediate effect, something like the V phase

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[quote user="crossy67"]Off grid requires batteries and lots of them.  Batteries have a finite life span and not a particularly long one at that then they are expansive to replace.  Solar water heaters look great to me.
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We actually had mains voltage on our narrow boat which generated electricity via the engine, solar panels and a wind turbine. We had something like six 'domestic' batteries which are different to car batteries in that they discharge at a steady rate unlike a car starter battery which discharges a very high current but for a short period. We then had a 'Mastervolt' four step charger and pure sine wave inverter which could run the immersion heater, washing machine, fridge freezer, second fridge and all the other 220V stuff and it worked OK but it was expensive to install. I think other than the engine the wind turbine was by far the best way of charging the (Gell) batteries which had a guarantee of 10 year each.

I agree with you and others, if anything water heating is the way to go. At least your get your money back before you die.

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Unfortunately not. We took two years out of work after my heart problems and traveled round the canal system on a route inspired by L.T.C. Holt and got involved in the TV series 'Waterworld' made by Central TV about the English canal system. I posted a photo on the forum some time back of our old boat "Merchant". Great life, loved it. People were talking about living 24/7 together in France, you should try that on a 70ft by 6ft 6inch narrow boat. If you CAN ignore the UK weather it's a great life being a 'water gypsy'.
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