galtezza Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 We are only days away from tacit approval (hopefully) being granted for our Permis de Construire, to change the use of 2 barns into gites and converting the attic of the house. We have been told by the DDE that everyone is favourable to the Permis de Construire - so we are pretty positive about the administration. However, we have been told that we will still need to wait for a further 2 months before starting work to allow for neighbours objections to the plans. The farm complex is set in several hectares, and the nearest two farms are out of sight. Our land butts up to the farmers prune orchard, but nowhere near his buildings. We really need to start the work from a financial perspective, but are concerned how likely it is that there would be neighbours objections. We're not sure on what grounds neighbours could object... We're hoping that those of you who have been here a while, or who have experience with the permis de construire process may have some ideas. Thanks in advance... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 How far have you liaised with the members of the conseil communale or kept your ear to the ground? In my village, projects have been sidelined because other local interests are keen to preserve their rice bowl just as it is. Examples might be where an established restaurant manages to stop any new ones being established. Out of interest, are there any other projects or the type you have in mind in the pipeline? Remember you are an outsider whose efforts might cause resentment or jealousy. This is a fact of life in small communities. However, there is no need for this to happen if you are seen as a positive asset; most mayors are keen to encourage your type of project for any number of reasons.What was the mayors advice when he approved the project, very positive, luke-warm?I am not being pessimistic, but brutally realistic. But don't lose any sleep, it will probably be ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachapapa Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Every other citizen is subjected to the two month period of inspection; so why should you be any different! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardian Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 If you'd posted this 3- 4 months ago, then time clearly would have been of the essence, because you'd have been seriously thinking of opening for business this Summer.However, even if you had the 'green light' tomorrow, you'd surely be struggling for completion by the high season? As it is, you can do nothing really until end-May. Starting any work could easily alienate! You'd do worse though than to just talk to your neighbours and ascertain their feelings. They probably won't bite.[blink] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Yes, whatever you do, do not start work. The project in front of my place was stopped for just that reason and never restarted. The owner eventually sold the land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galtezza Posted March 25, 2011 Author Share Posted March 25, 2011 Thanks guys.We have kept close to the maire at all times through the planning permission process, asking for her advice before we even started, and have consulted her when we had to change some design features. She is very positive about the plans and I think we definitely have her support. It is only a very small village, so I don't think there are any other developments in the area - this was one of the reasons we bought this property....but we will check that out at the Mairie.I'm not sure what you mean Pachapapa - I'm not stating that we shouldn't be subjected to the same process as everyone else. In fact it is the opposite. We have been told by a number of people that it is ok to start the work during the two months, as there are rarely any objectons unless you live very close to your neighbours and your plans will impinge on their properties. We are just checking to find out how likely that is. We can always start work on making the house habitable - not the change of use in the plans. However, our decision is whether we should actually proceed and complete on the property purchase at this stage - before the neighbours objections have been finished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CeeJay Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 I was granted a P-de-C in December last and was told that objections could be stated up to the end of the 2nd month and construction work started only after the end of the 3rd.month.Objections can only be raised on the legality of the project or the application itself, not on a whim of a neighbour, or any other aesthetic reason,so that if you have been granted the P-de-C all the legal issues should have been sorted out beforehand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon-the-censored Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 galtezza - don't worry about comments from pachapapa - nobody else does....Simon :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galtezza Posted March 26, 2011 Author Share Posted March 26, 2011 Thanks CeeJay. We went to the Notaire yesterday, and he echoed what you said. He knows the neighbours, and said that he didn't think there would be any objections. In fact in the last 5 years he hadn't come across any objections to planning permission within the village.So we have decided to complete on the purchase before the 2 months are finished, but we won't start work on the conversions. We will just get the main house round - I think it will take that long to get some sort of bathroom that I would want to use, and an kitchen that isn't full of dead insects and debris!Thanks Simon - I'll remember that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 All sorts of folk on here. You'll get, good, bad and indifferent advice and information.I understand you indignation about this, I know that many things that I was not used to made me indignant. Difference is that I didn't have the internet, didn't exist.So I would go to the Mairie and as I can be stroppy, sometimes with both guns blazing, but not always. I'd get my explanations. Truthfully they never thought any the worse of me for it, which I found out some years later. I had wondered. The chief clerk told a friend of mine that she liked me, because I didn't go moaning behind her back, but was dead straight and would say what I had to say. And re the information you get on here. Don't care who gives, it, check yourself, you'll often be given good directions to check; so check.Are you aware that you will need to find out if there are any plans/works in or around your new property. Searches are not done as in the UK, although I am not convinced that they are quite as they should be.Sounds to me like you need to go into the Mairie or even get an appointment at the DDE which is the regional planning office who deal with all the plans and have a chat about it all. Notaires are not the same as solicitors, I just look upon them as glorified tax collectors and expect little else from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilko Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 CJ gave you the best advice on here. Glad to hear you have now bought the property. We were in a similar position in 2003. We did the work on the existing, which you are allowed to do as long as you change nothing externally, by the time we had finished that the 3 months were up, we had no public objections, and we started the real work.Best of luck..........it will drive you crazy sometimes.Wilko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
londoneye Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 I can only give our experience in a similar situation and advise that you continue to liaise with the local mairie closely, as did we.We had no problems with our permis (same situation as you) and the mayor was very keen to bring business into a new commune.We did not know at the time but we later found out from a neighbour that he visited our immediate farmer neighbours and said 'you don't keep any animals in that barn do you ' (statement not question) because there could not be livestock within a certain distance of the renovated properties. Well actually they did keep completely illegal livestock in the barns so had to say no !My advice would be keep on side of the mairie and visit for updates every now and then because a mayor really can have a great deal of influence in a small commune.Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Which is great advice unless you have a despicable excuse for a human being ending up being Maire, that we ended up with in my old village. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachapapa Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 [quote user="Simon-come-lately"]galtezza - don't worry about comments from pachapapa - nobody else does.... Simon :-)[/quote]I would heartily recommend you starting your construction immediately, rules are made to be broken, go on be a daring ,adventurous entrepreneur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galtezza Posted April 2, 2011 Author Share Posted April 2, 2011 Thanks everyone for your help. We actually received our full Permis de Construire through yesterday, rather than having to work to a tacit approval. We got an email through from the Maire to let us know, saying 'good news, we have received your permis de construire through to the Mairie' - thankfully our Maire is great Idun, unike yours it seems. Thanks Wilko, we have decided to get the house ready and leave doing any of the planned renovations until the full process is complete. Bit more early evening trolling then Pachapapa.....does seem to be your thing doesn't it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinabee Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 Don't forget to post your "notice" on site in full view, as this starts the countdown for the time allowed for any objections - info herehttp://www.french-property.com/guides/france/building/planning/applications/notice/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomoss Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 [quote user="londoneye"]there could not be livestock within a certain distance of the renovated properties. Well actually they did keep completely illegal livestock in the barns [/quote] hello londoneye, could you please elaborate on regulations controlling the distance of livestock from other properties. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachapapa Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 [quote user="galtezza"]Thanks everyone for your help. We actually received our full Permis de Construire through yesterday, rather than having to work to a tacit approval. We got an email through from the Maire to let us know, saying 'good news, we have received your permis de construire through to the Mairie' - thankfully our Maire is great Idun, unike yours it seems. Thanks Wilko, we have decided to get the house ready and leave doing any of the planned renovations until the full process is complete. Bit more early evening trolling then Pachapapa.....does seem to be your thing doesn't it![/quote][:D]Very astute of you Sir!Patience is a virtue.[:)]The gallic approach to planning is the converse to the UK.The onus is on the authority to present reasons why the planning should not be given; indeed if one lodges an application which does not generate a reply then the authority can be informed after a certain period that the applicant assumes that the application has been granted in default.In the UK, I am led to believe that the onus is on the applicant to do the convincing.So no real surprise that your application has been approved; the contrary would have been noteworthy.Good luck in your venture! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 I didn't think it noteworthy when we had ours refused, depassement plan de sol sort of thing. The next lot was accepted, smaller than the original. I had not imaged that a terrace counted you see, and it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachapapa Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 [quote user="idun"]I didn't think it noteworthy when we had ours refused, depassement plan de sol sort of thing. The next lot was accepted, smaller than the original. I had not imaged that a terrace counted you see, and it does.[/quote]Regulations for terraces changed in 2007, for example with respect to height; but I presume you refer to a construction or extension including a terrace and the respective rules regarding SHOB,SHON and COS.Always best to check the latest decrees before putting pencil to paper; for example the allowance of an extra 20% in respect of COS for an e,nergy efficient building.http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=JORFTEXT000000793775&dateTexte= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilko Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 PP...........thanks for the last link, really interesting.rgdsW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 Yes, I agree, but 15 years ago we didn't have the internet and asked and then amended our plans after having it all explained to us.Everything is out there now and that is exactly what I would do, now. Our terrace was on top of a store room we were building, it had to have a 'lid' on it, other wise it would have been of no use, but because we would walk on the roof, it depassed the allowance. Still isn't quite logical to me. We were also told that we couldn't extend into our loft space as we had used ALL our allowance up. Now the loft is there, we would not have been encroaching on anyone else and apart from Velux windows wouldn't really have changed the look of the place, but no, no way we could have got permission, even though it was already in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 [quote user="pachapapa"]In the UK, I am led to believe that the onus is on the applicant to do the convincing.[/quote]In UK the local authority have 6 weeks to respond to a planning application and if they fail to respond at all then the plan is deemed to be approved as submitted.I speak from 1st hand experience in obtaining planning permission for a new build and for cutting down trees - both in a conservation area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty Sam Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 [quote user="AnOther"]In UK the local authority have 6 weeks to respond to a planning application and if they fail to respond at all then the plan is deemed to be approved as submitted.[/quote]That's very interesting! Care to provide the source of your information please?[quote user="AnOther"] I speak from 1st hand experience in obtaining planning permission for a new build and for cutting down trees - both in a conservation area.[/quote]Are you saying in affect, you didn't actually have planning permission or because it exceeded a 6 week rule, the local authority were forced to grant your application?What year did all this take place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty Sam Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 In another thread AnOther replied "I would like to respond but I've made a personal late new years resolution not to reply to identical posts in different sections",No reply to the above so I guess this would be applicable perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now