Heating and power - clean slate options

[flamesnm]

@Wilko - I thought the same thing, but in the cold spell I was talking to a few folks down there who were perishing. [Www]

After reading a bit more about them, I'm swaying towards a full air source water/air heat pump system. Backed up with an immersion switch for the HW tank. Some excellent information on this ( long ) thread. http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=1464827&page=7

It would also allow me to take a look at PV options in a few years when they beome more viable, which would reduce the heating costs further.

Taking a close look at the Mitsubishi and also the Nibe units ( http://www.nibe.co.uk/Home-Owner/NIBE-Heat-Pumps/air-source-heat-pumps/ ) which seem to have a good rep. No dice on a supplier so far in 64.

[Wilko]

" I thought the same thing, but in the cold spell I was talking to a few folks down there who were perishing."

But how well were their homes insulated ? I know the problem is how to insulate without destroying character in an old stone? house. Insulation is the most cost effective way to stay warm. How often is it really really cold, if it's for a relatively short period then supplement solar with electric, if it's like here you are talking brass monkeys for about 3 weeks...............and this winter was unusually cold.

Stay warm take care

Wilko

[flamesnm]

Seeing as the house will almost certainly need to be re-rendered, I'm wondering if anyone has any opinion on external insulation ?

Internal insulation will remove the character of the house, meaning we can't ( for example ) have an exposed stone wall. It will also reduce the room sizes.

External insulation will renew the outside of the house appearance, and allow us to keep the internal spaces. There is always the possiblity that renewing the external appearance will kill the external character of the house, but it does need re-rendering anway, so we would have to cross that bridge.

Internal insulation will allow us to run pipework and cables in a cavity behind the walls.

[Quillan]

Although I have no personal experience of external insulation there are several houses round here that have been done and I know somebody who had a quote and it was very expensive. The main thing is labour costs as is everything these days and this type of insulating is a specialist job so it will cost even more.

Insulating inside will knock about 8cm off each wall, not a lot really for what you gain in other ways.

You mentioned cavity wall, does that not have insulation in, mine does? If it does and you are tax resident in France then there are some offers from EDF at the moment including credit at 3% interest for insulation. Worth doing even if you have the cash as there are some good saving schemes in France, you could lock the money away for the duration of the loan you take and probably make half to one and a half percent interest after you have paid the loan off. [;-)]

[Halldfandid]

I am very interested in this thread.

We have a stonebuilt house in 46. Totally renovated over the last few years including extensive and substantial insulation, double-glazing etc. We installed underfloor heating (wet) which is currently powered by gas (tank in garden - no mains gas) but which we eventually hope to switch to a GSHP (that was the plan).

Can I ask - was the 25k€ for the whole system including the underfloor pipeworks etc or just the heat pump and external work ?

We also have a large standalone woodburner and I have to say that in mid winter when the stove is pushing out full capacity (12Kw), having the underfloor heating on too is total overkill - we are down to T-shirts!

I must endorse the other comments that insulation is absolutely key - both in summer and winter - we are very glad that we did it. In our case there were no "internal features" to be saved - so we dry-lined the whole house and packed it with insulation - losing inches in the process but we were remodelling from 4 outside walls.

I'd be very interested to hear experience from anyone with a GSHP installed.

[tonyv]

[quote user="Halldfandid"]I am very interested in this thread.

Can I ask - was the 25k€ for the whole system including the underfloor pipeworks etc or just the heat pump and external work ?

I'd be very interested to hear experience from anyone with a GSHP installed.

[/quote]

I assume that question was aimed at me.

Yes, that cost, plus VAT, was for the entire system and included groundworks (1000 m² to 75 cm depth) pipework, and reinstatement. Indoors, the digging up of the original 80 m² concrete floor to 30 cm, a new damp-proof membrane, insulation, pipework in 4 independant zones, and a new chappe. Upstairs radiators to 4 rooms plus landing. A heat pump plus buffer store, and some bits of electronics to control the whole system.

Not cheap, but I am delighted with the installation.

I have little insulation, but do have 40cm stone walls. Works for me!

As an aside, I hate it when people announce they're in "46". How the hell am I expected to know where that is? Is it just laziness, or is there a hidden significance in just quoting the code?

[sid]

[quote user="tonyv"]
As an aside, I hate it when people announce they're in "46". How the hell am I expected to know where that is? Is it just laziness, or is there a hidden significance in just quoting the code?

[/quote]

To be fair, it does say "Figeac-ish" in the sidebar. [Www]

[Quillan]

[quote user="tonyv"][quote user="Halldfandid"]I am very interested in this thread.

Can I ask - was the 25k€ for the whole system including the underfloor pipeworks etc or just the heat pump and external work ?

I'd be very interested to hear experience from anyone with a GSHP installed.

[/quote]

Yes, that cost, plus VAT ........
[/quote]

What rate VAT and is this system eligible for a cash back from the French government?

[Halldfandid]

Thanks Tony,

That is all very useful information. Sorry for the delay - we've been enroute to "Figeac-ish"! Sun pouring in the windows so the boiler is not working too hard today.

Another question - did you use a local French heat pump supplier ? We are directly north other side of Toulouse from the Ariege so if you used a supplier in the south west please can you let me know.

Thanks again,

Irene

[tonyv]

I don't remember the VAT rate, and I don't have the paperwork to hand. I didn't try to get a rebate, as this is a Residence secondaire.

These are the people I used: http://aumelie-services.fr/  The last 3 pictures on their gallery are of my system.

Although they did a good job, it was beset by delays, to the extent that I was almost pulling my hair out. But that's the French way [6]

[Quillan]

So we could potentially be talking around 30k tax paid etc. If the OP is tax resident he may be able to get some form of refund. Quick bash on the calculator shows you could buy 6 air units, pay for them to be installed and with the change run them for at least 20 years. Alternativly pay for 10 years worth of electricity and have a couple of good holidays. [:D]

[tonyv]

[quote user="Quillan"]So we could potentially be talking around 30k tax paid etc. If the OP is tax resident he may be able to get some form of refund. Quick bash on the calculator shows you could buy 6 air units, pay for them to be installed and with the change run them for at least 20 years. Alternativly pay for 10 years worth of electricity and have a couple of good holidays. [:D][/quote]

Nonetheless, I'm happy with my choices; fortunately my finances are my own business; I don't need your approval [6]

[Quillan]

[quote user="tonyv"][quote user="Quillan"]So we could potentially be talking around 30k tax paid etc. If the OP is tax resident he may be able to get some form of refund. Quick bash on the calculator shows you could buy 6 air units, pay for them to be installed and with the change run them for at least 20 years. Alternativly pay for 10 years worth of electricity and have a couple of good holidays. [:D][/quote]

Nonetheless, I'm happy with my choices; fortunately my finances are my own business; I don't need your approval [6]
[/quote]

I am simply pointing out that there are equally as good alternatives on the market at a substantially lower price which some may find of interest. As for approval of which I offered none either way, well it's your money not mine so what do I care what you do with it. I do however find your comment  a bit strange.

I asked my initial question about VAT/TVA because I didn't want the OP to think it was going to cost them just 25k only to discover it may cost them more which it turns out it may well do. What I was also trying to find out is if it would be 5.5% or the normal rate.

Any large capital investment even 30k (or 25k plus VAT/TVA) is not to be sniffed at and one should also look at the return on the investment. For me personally the type of investment you have made is not for me because I would probably be dead before I got the money back which is why I have gone my particular route. You have probably worked this out and are probably a lot younger than me so will get a return on your investment. When spending your children's inheritance you still want to get as big a bang for your buck as you can. [;-)]