assainissement/fosse septique

[pebejay]

We have had our house in the Deux-Sevres for 6 years. It has a fosse but the village has just finished having mains sewerage installed. The water authority have installed to our property edge and I have recieved a letter advising me I have two years to connect to the system. ( It doesn't say what will happen if I dont ). I will need to run a pipe from the fosse connection as this is where all the pipes leave the house, which means a trench of about 50 metres. This obviously won't be cheap. Is anyone aware of any grants/funding I might source towards the costs? Has anyone had a similar situation and are they aware of what would happen if I decide to stay as we are with the fosse? 

[pachapapa]

It does not make a lot of sense not connecting to the collective system.

The 2 year period normally includes a reduced charge for the actual connection to the collective sewer; after the completion of the 2 year period the connection fee will effectively be the rate for the job and very likely to be much more expensive.

In the event of you opting for NOT connecting to the collective municipal system two things will happen; firstly the local authority will examine your system with a "tooth comb" to make sure that it is in complete conformity with current regulations...you will be surprised what they will find wrong if they really put their mind to it; secondly you will be charged for the treatment of sewage and any capital works already completed or planned for the future, the charge for treatment will be in accordance with your clean water consumption. So in effect you will be paying anyway whether connected or not.

They will then probably remember that you have a well that could be used to reduce your water consumption, they will peruse the records to see if your well is registered with the local mairie, they will wonder if it is sealed in accordance with the regulations, they will wonder if you have a pump with an approved meter to record the consumption of water.

[Quillan]

[quote user="pachapapa"]

In the event of you opting for NOT connecting to the collective municipal system two things will happen; firstly the local authority will examine your system with a "tooth comb" to make sure that it is in complete conformity with current regulations...you will be surprised what they will find wrong if they really put their mind to it; secondly you will be charged for the treatment of sewage and any capital works already completed or planned for the future, the charge for treatment will be in accordance with your clean water consumption. So in effect you will be paying anyway whether connected or not.

[/quote]

I think this must very much depend on where you live i.e. regional and even local interpretation of whatever legislation there is.

Our water bill is exactly half of our neighbours. The reason being is that they are connected to the main sewer system and we are not. Our neighbour is charged once for the water they consume then the figure is doubled because the waste has to be treated. In our case we only consume water and our waste is treated and distributed on our property.

We did actually look at connecting to the sewer system but the cost due to the location of our fosse would require a 'lift' pump with macerator to lift the waste some three metres. No pressure has been put on use by the mayor to make this connection even though the sewer is within a few metres of our boundary and has been there for about seven years.

I did ask about help with the cost but got the famous French shrug so I would be very interested for future reference if you can indeed get a grant.

[pachapapa]

[quote user="Quillan"][quote user="pachapapa"]

In the event of you opting for NOT connecting to the collective municipal system two things will happen; firstly the local authority will examine your system with a "tooth comb" to make sure that it is in complete conformity with current regulations...you will be surprised what they will find wrong if they really put their mind to it; secondly you will be charged for the treatment of sewage and any capital works already completed or planned for the future, the charge for treatment will be in accordance with your clean water consumption. So in effect you will be paying anyway whether connected or not.

[/quote]

I think this must very much depend on where you live i.e. regional and even local interpretation of whatever legislation there is.

Our water bill is exactly half of our neighbours. The reason being is that they are connected to the main sewer system and we are not. Our neighbour is charged once for the water they consume then the figure is doubled because the waste has to be treated. In our case we only consume water and our waste is treated and distributed on our property.

We did actually look at connecting to the sewer system but the cost due to the location of our fosse would require a 'lift' pump with macerator to lift the waste some three metres. No pressure has been put on use by the mayor to make this connection even though the sewer is within a few metres of our boundary and has been there for about seven years.

I did ask about help with the cost but got the famous French shrug so I would be very interested for future reference if you can indeed get a grant.

[/quote]

The OP has had a house in deux-sèvres for 6 years.

I have had a house in deux-sèvres for 16 years.

[pebejay]

Thanks for your responses - certainly food for thought.

[pachapapa]

[quote user="pebejay"]Thanks for your responses - certainly food for thought.[/quote]

Thankyou! Very gracious of you.

Just a word on grants, loans and tax credits. Your post suggests that despite owning a house for 6 years in deux-sèvres it would appear from the tenor of your post that it is a "résidence secondaire, if this is the case you will find it virtually impossible to get any assistance. The only exception to this situation that I can remember off hand were dwellings within the catchment area of the lac du cebron as a portion of the water is used for drinking water.

[idun]

I used to wonder why some people's water bills on here were so low. And now I realise.

We had to have a fosse septique, but our waste water went into the mains drains and so we paid double. I found it an excellent system.

[Quillan]

[quote user="idun"]

I used to wonder why some people's water bills on here were so low. And now I realise.

We had to have a fosse septique, but our waste water went into the mains drains and so we paid double. I found it an excellent system.

[/quote]

I only found out because our second years bill was double so I went to mayors office and asked. They told me it was for water in and sewage out. I told them I had a fosse so they sent me a new bill for half the amount.

[Quillan]

[quote user="pachapapa"][quote user="Quillan"][quote user="pachapapa"]

In the event of you opting for NOT connecting to the collective municipal system two things will happen; firstly the local authority will examine your system with a "tooth comb" to make sure that it is in complete conformity with current regulations...you will be surprised what they will find wrong if they really put their mind to it; secondly you will be charged for the treatment of sewage and any capital works already completed or planned for the future, the charge for treatment will be in accordance with your clean water consumption. So in effect you will be paying anyway whether connected or not.

[/quote]

I think this must very much depend on where you live i.e. regional and even local interpretation of whatever legislation there is.

Our water bill is exactly half of our neighbours. The reason being is that they are connected to the main sewer system and we are not. Our neighbour is charged once for the water they consume then the figure is doubled because the waste has to be treated. In our case we only consume water and our waste is treated and distributed on our property.

We did actually look at connecting to the sewer system but the cost due to the location of our fosse would require a 'lift' pump with macerator to lift the waste some three metres. No pressure has been put on use by the mayor to make this connection even though the sewer is within a few metres of our boundary and has been there for about seven years.

I did ask about help with the cost but got the famous French shrug so I would be very interested for future reference if you can indeed get a grant.

[/quote]

The OP has had a house in deux-sèvres for 6 years.

I have had a house in deux-sèvres for 16 years.

[/quote]

And your point, other than living there longer than the OP is?

[sid]

[quote user="idun"]

I used to wonder why some people's water bills on here were so low. And now I realise.

We had to have a fosse septique, but our waste water went into the mains drains and so we paid double. I found it an excellent system.

[/quote]

I didn't understand your reply Idun... You had both a fosse and mains drainage? Surely that's not correct?

[pachapapa]

[quote user="Quillan"][quote user="idun"]

I used to wonder why some people's water bills on here were so low. And now I realise.

We had to have a fosse septique, but our waste water went into the mains drains and so we paid double. I found it an excellent system.

[/quote]

I only found out because our second years bill was double so I went to mayors office and asked. They told me it was for water in and sewage out. I told them I had a fosse so they sent me a new bill for half the amount.

[/quote]

Obligation de raccordement aux égouts

Le raccordement des immeubles aux égouts disposés pour recevoir les eaux usées domestiques est obligatoire dans le délai de 2 ans à compter de la mise en service du réseau de collecte des eaux usées.

Il est réalisé sous la voie publique à laquelle les immeubles ont accès soit directement soit par l'intermédiaire de voies privées ou de servitudes de passage.

Tous les ouvrages nécessaires pour amener les eaux usées à la partie publique sont à la charge exclusive du propriétaire.

Pénalité en l'absence de raccordement

Si l'obligation de raccordement n'est pas respectée dans le délai fixé, le consommateur court le risque de se voir infliger une pénalité pécuniaire : sa redevance d'assainissement peut être majorée (augmentée) sur décision du conseil municipal, dans la limite de 100 % de son montant initial.

La commune, après mise en demeure, peut procéder d'office aux travaux nécessaires, aux frais du propriétaire (y compris les frais de gestion), même sur le domaine privé.

Really! Are you sure?

I feel the need for a little chat with the Secretary of your Mairie to learn the reasons for this unique situation.

[idun]

[quote user="sid"][quote user="idun"]

I used to wonder why some people's water bills on here were so low. And now I realise.

We had to have a fosse septique, but our waste water went into the mains drains and so we paid double. I found it an excellent system.

[/quote]

I didn't understand your reply Idun... You had both a fosse and mains drainage? Surely that's not correct?

[/quote]

 

Yes Sid, we did, all the houses on our estate did. The drains were made to take the grey water from the septic tank and the sink/bath water etc( which didn't go into the septic tank, but directly into the drains). It was really good. No cleaning out anything disgusting at all like filters. I had never realised that we were at odds with other fosse users until I started reading on here. Why the toilet waste didn't go directly into the main drains, I don't know, but to me it felt like an excellent system. It meant that we never ever put stuff we shouldn't down our toilet, just bodily waste and appropriate toilet paper.

 

The first house on our little estate was built in 1979, ours in 1982/1983 and the others that followed all were on the same system. Was the rest of our village the same? I do not know, but probably a lot of them, just by the discussions about water bills, if any friends had had bills half ours, I would have been wondering why.

[Quillan]

[quote user="pachapapa"][quote user="Quillan"][quote user="idun"]

I used to wonder why some people's water bills on here were so low. And now I realise.

We had to have a fosse septique, but our waste water went into the mains drains and so we paid double. I found it an excellent system.

[/quote]

I only found out because our second years bill was double so I went to mayors office and asked. They told me it was for water in and sewage out. I told them I had a fosse so they sent me a new bill for half the amount.

[/quote]

Obligation de raccordement aux égouts

Le raccordement des immeubles aux égouts disposés pour recevoir les eaux usées domestiques est obligatoire dans le délai de 2 ans à compter de la mise en service du réseau de collecte des eaux usées.

Il est réalisé sous la voie publique à laquelle les immeubles ont accès soit directement soit par l'intermédiaire de voies privées ou de servitudes de passage.

Tous les ouvrages nécessaires pour amener les eaux usées à la partie publique sont à la charge exclusive du propriétaire.

Pénalité en l'absence de raccordement

Si l'obligation de raccordement n'est pas respectée dans le délai fixé, le consommateur court le risque de se voir infliger une pénalité pécuniaire : sa redevance d'assainissement peut être majorée (augmentée) sur décision du conseil municipal, dans la limite de 100 % de son montant initial.

La commune, après mise en demeure, peut procéder d'office aux travaux nécessaires, aux frais du propriétaire (y compris les frais de gestion), même sur le domaine privé.

Really! Are you sure?

I feel the need for a little chat with the Secretary of your Mairie to learn the reasons for this unique situation.

[/quote]

I have just sat down to write the cheque and I can assure you what I have said is correct. If you have a fosse then perhaps rather than contact my mayor's secretary you might like to contact yours and ask why you are paying double.

For your information my bill is broken down as follows 140,40€ Consommation Eau, 24,00€ Location Compteur, 30,24€ Redevance pollution de l'eau. Total bill is 194,64.

Rather than just type what you want in French you should provide a link to the text for without it your French comments could be written by anyone including yourself.

As I said before how things are interpreted at regional, deparmental and local level, as experience has shown time and time again (not just by me but by many others on the forum) can vary a lot.

 

[Quillan]

That is a good way of doing it Idun. We often get notes from the mayor about nappies, sanitary towels etc being put down the toilets which result in the big macerators at the local pumping stations getting blocked and damaged. Seems to me that the system you had would avoid that particular problem.

[sid]

I must confess to never having heard of that system. I think it could only work on a new development as it would be really difficult the separate the waste from an older house like ours for example, where there is only one pipe into the fosse; all the outlets join underground, and under about 30cms of concrete now. Would it have been done that way (Idun's) because of the nature of the ground with poor porosity, clay perhaps? It seems a good idea on the face of it, but not if it costs twice as much!

To be honest I've found the fosse to be trouble-free so I'm not sure that connecting to the mains (if it were possible, which it's not in our case) would be of any great advantage.

[idun]

Exactly Q, I have read and heard horror stories about what is chucked down the loo into mains drains.

I'm now going to have to ask what all my friends have, especially those in the older homes.

[pebejay]

Thanks for this, Pachapapa. Where did you source the information? As you are also in the Deux Sevres I would be interested to see if it is the same syndicat d'eau. It is interesting to see that they would, if necessary, do the work themselves.

[pachapapa]

[quote user="idun"][quote user="sid"][quote user="idun"]

I used to wonder why some people's water bills on here were so low. And now I realise.

We had to have a fosse septique, but our waste water went into the mains drains and so we paid double. I found it an excellent system.

[/quote]

I didn't understand your reply Idun... You had both a fosse and mains drainage? Surely that's not correct?

[/quote]

 

Yes Sid, we did, all the houses on our estate did. The drains were made to take the grey water from the septic tank and the sink/bath water etc( which didn't go into the septic tank, but directly into the drains). It was really good. No cleaning out anything disgusting at all like filters. I had never realised that we were at odds with other fosse users until I started reading on here. Why the toilet waste didn't go directly into the main drains, I don't know, but to me it felt like an excellent system. It meant that we never ever put stuff we shouldn't down our toilet, just bodily waste and appropriate toilet paper.

 

The first house on our little estate was built in 1979, ours in 1982/1983 and the others that followed all were on the same system. Was the rest of our village the same? I do not know, but probably a lot of them, just by the discussions about water bills, if any friends had had bills half ours, I would have been wondering why.

[/quote]

The methods of treatment have changed since 1979, in that time period grey water and used water were separated, this is no longer the case even for a system of assainissement non collective an additional difference is that the lotissement may have had system solely for the lotissement.

[idun]

Nope, not separate at all in our case. The pipework from the grey water from the septic tank and the pipework from the household general waste water/including gutters both linked up to a pipe at the front of our house and went  into the main drain.

The people who built the lotissement were supposed to link the main drain on our estate to the main drain in the village and hadn't. We got the DDASS onto them and they came and did it. The main drain crossed my neighbours land and then a river and then joined with the main drain on that side of the river. As we had neighbours who had lived their since 1979, and they were linked up to the same main drain with the same system as us, I can only assume that it was meant to be like that.

Even if it wasn't meant to be like that, that was what the Mairie wanted us to do when we had the house built and we never ever got another letter suggesting that we do anything different.

 

As I said, I think it was a great system. When I hear about cleaning out a bac a graisse etc, gives me mal au coeur. Wouldn't like to have to deal with that sort of thing.

[pachapapa]

[quote user="Quillan"][quote user="pachapapa"][quote user="Quillan"][quote user="idun"]

I used to wonder why some people's water bills on here were so low. And now I realise.

We had to have a fosse septique, but our waste water went into the mains drains and so we paid double. I found it an excellent system.

[/quote]

I only found out because our second years bill was double so I went to mayors office and asked. They told me it was for water in and sewage out. I told them I had a fosse so they sent me a new bill for half the amount.

[/quote]

Obligation de raccordement aux égouts

Le raccordement des immeubles aux égouts disposés pour recevoir les eaux usées domestiques est obligatoire dans le délai de 2 ans à compter de la mise en service du réseau de collecte des eaux usées.

Il est réalisé sous la voie publique à laquelle les immeubles ont accès soit directement soit par l'intermédiaire de voies privées ou de servitudes de passage.

Tous les ouvrages nécessaires pour amener les eaux usées à la partie publique sont à la charge exclusive du propriétaire.

Pénalité en l'absence de raccordement

Si l'obligation de raccordement n'est pas respectée dans le délai fixé, le consommateur court le risque de se voir infliger une pénalité pécuniaire : sa redevance d'assainissement peut être majorée (augmentée) sur décision du conseil municipal, dans la limite de 100 % de son montant initial.

La commune, après mise en demeure, peut procéder d'office aux travaux nécessaires, aux frais du propriétaire (y compris les frais de gestion), même sur le domaine privé.

Really! Are you sure?

I feel the need for a little chat with the Secretary of your Mairie to learn the reasons for this unique situation.

[/quote]

I have just sat down to write the cheque and I can assure you what I have said is correct. If you have a fosse then perhaps rather than contact my mayor's secretary you might like to contact yours and ask why you are paying double.

For your information my bill is broken down as follows 140,40€ Consommation Eau, 24,00€ Location Compteur, 30,24€ Redevance pollution de l'eau. Total bill is 194,64.

Rather than just type what you want in French you should provide a link to the text for without it your French comments could be written by anyone including yourself.

As I said before how things are interpreted at regional, deparmental and local level, as experience has shown time and time again (not just by me but by many others on the forum) can vary a lot.

 

[/quote]

I do not have a fosse toutes eaux, the house is connected to a main sewer which is connected to a pumping station delivering the collective effluent to the treatment plant. I do not pay double so no need to contact the local secretary.

However it would appear that a collective sewage system is available in a public road adjacent to your property; it would also appear that the local mayor has neglected to make satisfactory arrangements to ensure your connection to the public collective system during a period of 7 years.

[pachapapa]

[quote user="pebejay"]Thanks for this, Pachapapa. Where did you source the information? As you are also in the Deux Sevres I would be interested to see if it is the same syndicat d'eau. It is interesting to see that they would, if necessary, do the work themselves.[/quote]

Link to relevant legislation:

http://goo.gl/geYzU

Link to simpler public service web site:

http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/F20554.xhtml

I am with the Sources de Seneuil a very small operation.

[Quillan]

[quote user="pachapapa"]

However it would appear that a collective sewage system is available in a public road adjacent to your property; it would also appear that the local mayor has neglected to make satisfactory arrangements to ensure your connection to the public collective system during a period of 7 years.

[/quote]

Not so we are about  500M down a private road, There are three roads that service seven houses of which three are connected. The roads are the responsibility of seven houses and not the mayor.

[BJSLIV]

As Pacha has said you are supposed to connect to the mains drains within two years of them being installed. However the Mairie can allow up to 10 years ...... or they might forget altogether. I suppose the SPANC inspection might cast some light.

You will see that the obligation applies once the drains are in the main road whether you have access directly or via an intermediary private road

http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichCode.do?idSectionTA=LEGISCTA000006171062&cidTexte=LEGITEXT000006072665

Le raccordement des immeubles aux réseaux publics de collecte disposés pour recevoir les eaux usées domestiques et établis sous la voie publique à laquelle ces immeubles ont accès soit directement, soit par l'intermédiaire de voies privées ou de servitudes de passage, est obligatoire dans le délai de deux ans à compter de la mise en service du réseau public de collecte.

Un arrêté interministériel détermine les catégories d'immeubles pour lesquelles un arrêté du maire, approuvé par le représentant de l'Etat dans le département, peut accorder soit des prolongations de délais qui ne peuvent excéder une durée de dix ans, soit des exonérations de l'obligation prévue au premier alinéa.

[Quillan]

Thanks for the link, I shall read this at my leisure.

In our case they must have installed the sewer before we bought the house (which means over 10 years ago) and it would make sense for us to connect up to it. Our problem is, as I said before, is cost as we are down hill from the sewer and the connection from our existing system is about 100M from the sewer. So as I said it's not just a simple matter of digging a trench and making a connect which is why I spoke to the mayor a few years back about financial help and got no answer. My neighbour is in the same position with this as he is downhill as well and remains on a fosse. So far to the best of my knowledge no SPANC inspection has taken place on any of the properties in the village so far. Without any letter from the mayor and no pressure from him either I guess we are all waiting to see what happens but it's best to be prepared.

I take it then from the lack of response to the OP's question you cannot get financial assistance to get connected.

[pachapapa]

Possibly PTZ until end of 2014.