Circuit for electric radiators

[stan]

Can someone advise me of the regulations for wiring electric radiators in France. basically when we purchased our present property there were 2 woodburners for the 2 ground floor rooms, ie living room and kitchen, and plug-in radiators for the 3 bedrooms and bathrooms upstairs. We got rid of the plug-in radiators when we renovated, and I was about to purchase new radiators when I was advised that plug in electric radiators are prohibited in France, and that I would need dedicated electrical circuits for each radiatior I had planned for every room.

I would like to install an air/air heat pump "inverteur" type heating system for the winter, and presume they would also require dedicated circuits too.

Having completed all the plasterwork, I have no desire to rip apart boarding and re-wire, however if need be, it could be done by running new circuits from the electric meter board, up into a grenier, back outside and around the outside of the building and back in through the stone wall into respective rooms.

I would have asked the electrician that assisted me in the renovation this question, but he never mentioned anything about dedicated circuits at the time, and so slightly distrust his capabilities.

If anyone can advise re the regs concerning this, I would be obliged.

[Quillan]

The best way, keeping it simple, is to say that if the heater comes with a plug then you can plug it in to a socket (these tend to be mobile units). If it does not come with a plug you need a dedicated circuit (these tend to come as 'bolt to the wall' units). These regs have been round a while. Our house was built in 83 and all the electrical heaters had their individual breaker.

If you are talking about installing 'inverter' clim units individually in rooms mine came with a plug on the end of a cable attached to the inside unit. The inside unit 'powers' the outside unit.

If it was a French electrician then it is unlikely he would have asked or suggested, it's up to you to tell him. If its not on the Devis then it won't get done.

[stan]

[quote user="Quillan"]

The best way, keeping it simple, is to say that if the heater comes with a plug then you can plug it in to a socket (these tend to be mobile units). If it does not come with a plug you need a dedicated circuit (these tend to come as 'bolt to the wall' units). These regs have been round a while. Our house was built in 83 and all the electrical heaters had their individual breaker.

If you are talking about installing 'inverter' clim units individually in rooms mine came with a plug on the end of a cable attached to the inside unit. The inside unit 'powers' the outside unit.

If it was a French electrician then it is unlikely he would have asked or suggested, it's up to you to tell him. If its not on the Devis then it won't get done.

[/quote]

Thanks Quillan, very informative. So, I can simply plug in any "plugged" inverteur units, without having dedicated circuits? That would be ideal as all I would have to do is make one hole for the "frigorifique" pipe. You obviously shopped around for an inverteur. Can I ask if most of them came with a plug?

[Quillan]

Sorry but the only 'looking' I did was for price so I bought AirTon units from BricoDepot and they came with plugs.

I did give in another thread some ideas, learnt the hard way, for installation.

[nomoss]

Just wondering. When I was in the ACHV business we had a lot of problems with leaks in  pre-filled systems using quick connectors.

After a few years (not many) the rubber seals in the connectors failed, and the refrigerant leaked out. We cut out and replaced them with soldered connections, but also had to dry and evacuate the system before refilling it. Quite an expensive exercise, probably costing more than using conventional piping in the first place.

What are your experiences?

 

 

[Quillan]

I used the pre gassed pipes which have a 5 year warranty. I know a man who knows a man that gassed his for 60 Euros after he had used ordinary pipes. All I can really say is that three years in and they still work.

[stan]

Another point re electrical circuitry I found in one of the brochures for a ZIBRO climatiseur was that apparently since 4th July 2009, the law states that any installation involving liquid refrigerant, as contained in these systems, has to be undertaken by a certified installer. Now, if these simply come with plugs, what is the point in paying x amount of hundreds of euros (679€ TTC to be exact) to have someone simply screw a bracket on an outside wall to take the external unit, drill a hole in a stone wall, connect a quick fit connector and plug the thing in. My suspicions is that probably thse units now do not come with plugs and so need a dedicated electrical circuit at extra cost on top of the certified installer. I am also wondering if having to engage an installer would result in one of these renewable energy tax credits as I am resident here and this is my primary resience.

[Quillan]

If you read your first sentence again then it is in line with what is written on the data sheets that came with the unit a friend bought this year that I helped install and basically means you can't 'charge' the system with gas yourself because charging the system with gas by an unqualified person is against the law which is why I suggested he bought pre charged pipes. His unit came with a plug on the end.

[BJSLIV]

Reply from Zibro's website.

La loi en application depuis le 4 juillet 2009 impose que toute installation contenant un liquide réfrigérant doit être effectué par un technicien accrédité. Un installateur agréé est qualifié pour souder des raccords hermétiques et est conforme à toutes les exigences en matière de technique, d'environnement et de sécurité. Les techniciens agréés sont aussi équipés des bons outils (pompe à vide, poste à souder, manomètres, et détecteurs de fuites) pour installer et faire fonctionner un climatiseur. Ils ont aussi les connaissances qui peuvent s'avérer utiles pour le perçage du béton, le transport vertical, l'alimentation électrique, etc. Les modèles muraux dotés d'une connexion rapide Parker peuvent être installés en grande partie par l'utilisateur car les conduites où se trouve le liquide réfrigérant sont déjà hermétiquement fermées.

[Quillan]

I read this to mean that you can't make the pipes yourself nor can you fill them yourself. You can however buy pre filled pipes and connect them yourself. The rest is really advice on fixing and in particular the outside units but you can of course fit them yourself. I guess they are suggesting you get the chap to do it in case they fall off and injure somebody. No mention I might add about electricity supply.

[stan]

[quote user="Quillan"]I read this to mean that you can't make the pipes yourself nor can you fill them yourself. You can however buy pre filled pipes and connect them yourself. The rest is really advice on fixing and in particular the outside units but you can of course fit them yourself. I guess they are suggesting you get the chap to do it in case they fall off and injure somebody. No mention I might add about electricity supply.[/quote]

Thnaks again Quillan, this gets better very time you reply! I will definitely go down the pre-filled pipe and plug route and save my self a few euros. The external units would be above the garden, so unlikely to injure anyone in the unlikely event that they fall down !