Winter freeze ups

[WendyG]

Hi everyone

Not sure whether this is right place for this.

However, for the first time I am not going to be in France over the winter and intend to turn off not only the water but the electric power as well at meter.

My query is that my washing machine is in a utility room but with a fridge/freezer near by.  This winter the fridge/freezer will not be running - will this make any difference to whether the washing machine ?pump survives without being damaged?   Not sure if "heat" generated by f/f has been enough to prevent damage in the past.

Dishwasher is in kitchen but think is ok because of the salt element in the water.  Not same for washer obviously.

Am wondering whether "wrapping" washing machine would help or whether to just hope for the best.   Neighbour's pump went last Feb but it was in a very flimsy outhouse.

Any helpful suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

WendyG

[Théière]

Wendy, wrapping wont help as e everthing reaches the same temperature unless it has a source of heat. Can you remove the cover on the pump as you would if clearing out the pump lint filter. That should be enough as its only the water expansion which is the problem

EDIT:

The standard layout has the pump at the lowest point so opening the pump lint filter will drain the water out (turn off the water first) any water inside (which will be very little could be vacuumed or blown out) can expand without issue. The machine drain pipe exits higher than the pump so opening the lint filter will drain down that section too.

Pump and lint filter are in green.

[jacko19]

Hi Wendy I dont know about the pump freezing - I guess it will be pretty dry when it has last pumped out. The area that has caused me problems is the solenoid valve

- unfortunately I have blown 2 of them in the last 3 years - it is not enough to disconnect the filling hose at the tap but take it off at the machine and try to blow any water out of the inlet - fortunately the last machine was still under a maintenance contract in the uk so we took it back and reported it faulty (admittedly this was in june) and when the

engineer came he covered his ears when we mentioned frost as they had been told that these should not be repaired under contract as they had had so many with this problem.

The part required in each case was the complete filling unit at about £85 which could not be sent to a French address so the first one was sent to my son to take it apart and then post the smallest item ( the valve ) on to me so Mrs Jacko was not best impressed with about 10 days without washer. We now have a French washer here covered by a warranty, and 2 washing machines in the UK which means that at least the kids have a spare nearby if they have any problems.

[Mungo]

Hi Wendy

I'm about to go through the same process but was wondering about the water left in the toilet bowl.  Does anybody think I should empty them out as well?  I know that this would mean I would have to block it with something to prevent smells coming back into the house, I thought of stuffing some loft insulation down them.

[Quillan]

As somebody said the problem is with expansion as the water water freezes. Personally I would empty the bowl as much as I can but you don't have to get every last drop out. All I do is use the toilet brush to push the water away until it is lower that the 'U' bend which leaves about an inch of water left. We do this in our mobile home every year and with temperatures down to -15 and little or no insulation you know everything will freeze inside. Using this method we have never had a problem. I would suggest you close the lid and put a blanket over it or better still some clingfilm because once the water has gone there is nothing to stop the nasty smells from coming out of the toilet.

Don't forget the boiler if you have one. The matrix (the actual bit the water goes through to get hot) is not very strong and is easy to damage if it freezes so you should not just open the cold taps when you empty the system but the hot as well and from the highest point. If you have a sealed system (like for heating) then make sure it is serviced and that the person servicing it puts the right mix of antifreeze in.

[Théière]

Poor some antifreeze in the bowl.

[Quillan]

Glycol, the main ingredient of antifreeze (and certain Austrian wine back in the 80's), will evaporate when not in a sealed system although it does so quite slowly. The bigger the surface area however the faster it evaporates. It is also harmful to animals and humans (use rubber gloves when it is in undiluted state as recommended). You also have to buy it of course whilst getting rid of most of the water is free and the cost of a couple of strips of clingfilm in nothing in comparison. [;-)]

[Mungo]

Thanks for the advice, all very useful.  Is anti-freeze harmful to my septic tank?

[Quillan]

If the antifreeze contains Glycol then yes it can effect your septic tank as it may kill off the natural bacteria that live there which makes the tank work because Glycol is toxic hence you keep it away from animals as well. Personally I wouldn't take the risk, I would do as I suggested but that's me.

[powerdesal]

I seem to remember, from years ago, someone suggested putting salt in the toilet bowl to depress the freezing point.

Does it work in practice - I have no idea.

[Théière]

It isn't the Glycol you need to watch it's the Ethylene which is toxic/poisonous which is why more and more people are switching to Propylene Glycol as it isn't toxic or harmful to humans or pets which particularly like to drink Ethylene Glycol antifreeze with disastrous consequences.

Either way 200ml of antifreeze isn't going to have much effect on a 3,000-5,000 litre septic which will soon build up the bacteria again when you feed it.

[Hoddy]

I empty a plastic drinks bottle, fill it with pebbles and put it in the water in the toilet bowl.

Hoddy

[Mungo]

[quote user="Hoddy"]I empty a plastic drinks bottle, fill it with pebbles and put it in the water in the toilet bowl. Hoddy[/quote]

 

Very interesting.  I take it it doesn't stop it freezing but somehow allows room for expansion.  If the bottle was completely filled it wouldn't flex and the bowl may still crack.  How does it work?

[Tancrède]

[quote user="Hoddy"]I empty a plastic drinks bottle, fill it with pebbles and put it in the water in the toilet bowl.[/quote]

This is good.  But I find that child's wellington boot stuffed down the lav is the perfect solution.  You do not have to fill it with anything, and it goes Round the Bend better than a drinks bottle (most of which are glass in my experience).  Obviously it is best to remove the child first.

[Hoddy]

You are right Mungo. I should have written 'enough pebbles in the bottom to keep it upright'. I'm not sure if it has ever frozen. This advice was given by a former poster in the early days of this forum and it appears to have worked for me for ten years.

Hoddy

[Théière]

Hmmm, big plus it'll wash your welly too

[Mungo]

[quote user="Gengulphus"][quote user="Hoddy"]I empty a plastic drinks bottle, fill it with pebbles and put it in the water in the toilet bowl.[/quote]
This is good.  But I find that child's wellington boot stuffed down the lav is the perfect solution.  You do not have to fill it with anything, and it goes Round the Bend better than a drinks bottle (most of which are glass in my experience).  Obviously it is best to remove the child first.



[/quote]

Children's wellies would be difficult for me to get hold off but my girlfriend has small feet so I suppose I could use hers?  Best not tell her though!

[Mungo]

[quote user="Hoddy"]You are right Mungo. I should have written 'enough pebbles in the bottom to keep it upright'. I'm not sure if it has ever frozen. This advice was given by a former poster in the early days of this forum and it appears to have worked for me for ten years. Hoddy[/quote]

 

This sounds like a plan.

[Quillan]

[quote user="Gengulphus"][quote user="Hoddy"]I empty a plastic drinks bottle, fill it with pebbles and put it in the water in the toilet bowl.[/quote]
This is good.  But I find that child's wellington boot stuffed down the lav is the perfect solution.  You do not have to fill it with anything, and it goes Round the Bend better than a drinks bottle (most of which are glass in my experience).  Obviously it is best to remove the child first.

[/quote]

But how do you get a child to stand there all winter with its foot down the toilet? [;-)]

[andyh4]

[quote user="powerdesal"]I seem to remember, from years ago, someone suggested putting salt in the toilet bowl to depress the freezing point. Does it work in practice - I have no idea.[/quote]

500gm pack down the bowl will reduce the freezing point to around -20°C.  Not overly friendly to the fosse but much better than glycols.  In the Spring just dilute the salt with a few extra flushes.

[DerekJ]

Yup, that's what we do... hope it works OK again this winter.