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Due Diligence on Tradesmen?


Richard
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Hi Everyone!

We're in the process of engaging with a tradesman/general builder in our area of Brittany. We have met with them face-to-face on a couple of occasions, and get an overall positive "gut feeling" about them.

However, I don't feel that is enough to start handing over several thousand euro's; and would like to do a bit more "research" on them.

Not sure if I can mention the name of the company here on this forum, but they have "horse" as the first part of their company name.

I have followed the link provided in the FAQ in this section of the forum, and looked up their Siret No. which matches their company name. However, the address provided on the Siret No. is their UK address; albeit they have been living in France for 7+ years.

We plan to ask for several references of clients they have provided services to recently, as well as in the past, and will definitely contact those references.

We also have given them a small job to complete, and based on the satisfaction of that delivery we will make a final decision.

From all of this, is there anything else we can do in order to find out if they are legitimate/reputable?

Many thanks in advance!

Richard
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You should ask to see his insurance as well.

You can also check with the relevant 'Chambre' he is registered like is his membership up to date and has there been any problems.

Make sure you have a detailed Devis (quote) with a finish date on it. Try and be reasonable with the date, if he says four weeks then say "tell you what, add another week on just in case". Also add on that no extras will be paid for unless accompanied by a Devis signed by both parties.

Other than those very small things you seem to have tackled it the right way, good luck.

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Why would french residents have their business registered at a UK address?

Personally that would put me off, and I don't care whether they are good or not, just seems 'not right'.

 

The other things suggested, are great advice and should be followed, no matter who does the work.

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I'm afraid that I would only be handing over several thousand pounds or euro when the job is done to my satisfaction and is completed, including snagging. As Q said make sure their insurance is in place, and it wouldn't be a bad idea tio check out their yard or workshop, poor workshop or yard often is a clue as to working practices. Good luck
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[quote user="idun"]

Why would french residents have their business registered at a UK address?

Personally that would put me off, and I don't care whether they are good or not, just seems 'not right'.

 

The other things suggested, are great advice and should be followed, no matter who does the work.

[/quote]

Why do so many Co have their businesses in countries other than the one they are working in, for tax and bureaucracy reasons.

NickP, I would have to agree a stage payments system as I am not sure I trust the customer that much either without carrying out credit checks first.

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If the job runs into tens of thousands I would possibly be prepared to make staged payments. Anything less and case it would be payment on completion.

Companies go bust and you will be the last to know and can kiss your money bye bye.

Are they well known and respected by locals ?

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I hav to say that I take on board what Idun has said but then I don't know anything about the legalities of a UK company having a SIRET number in France although it stands to reason that they could under EU law if they work here. I seem to remember that a few years ago this subject came up, nothing to do with building etc, probably something financial. Whilst I typed the last sentence it reminded me that my pension is now with AXA in the UK which is a registered company there so I guess it is common practice these days. In this particular instance I suspect it is for tax and VAT reasons as VAT, as an example, is higher rated in France and the builder can claim it back in the UK and make a small profit on the difference. Having said that I am not an accountant by far so I don't really know although I guess social contributions are a lot less in the UK if that is where the builder is paying his staff.

I agree with stage payments especially in this current economic climate. When I think about that I personally would pay 30% (start), 30% (half), 30% (end) and 10%. The last ten would be paid after the snag list (and there will be one) has been completed. Just to keep the builder focused I would add to the Devis that if the snag list is not completed within a certain time I keep the 10%. I would however, again, be reasonable with this. If the guy says all the snags will be fixed in three weeks then tell him you will give him four but force the point that after four weeks you will keep the 10% and put this in writing and get him and you to sign it.

If he is a good and honorable builder he won't have a problem with this.

The Devis is the most important document in France, it must be detailed and drilled down to the lowest level. Giving a Devis that just says "To build and Extension" or "to replace a roof" is not good enough. It must contain detail like in the case of a roof remove existing tiles, put aside good tiles for re-use, replace 'X' amount of trusses, sheet, membrane, batten and fit tiles. I am not sure if that's the right sequence as I have not researched fitting a new roof but you get the idea. The Devis, in the unlikelihood of it all going wrong, is what a French court will be most interested in like whats is on it and what isn't.

It seems to me that the OP has got his/her head screwed on right and to the best of their knowledge are doing everything right which they are. The biggest tip is, which I don't believe they have done, is not to leave their common sense back in the UK. [;-)]

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The OP said that the builder had lived in France for 7+ years, so I do not understand the UK address at all. We are not after all talking about a big international company with crafty accountants getting round tax laws and avoiding taxes....... are we?

As I said that would make me suspicious.

 

 

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I suspect his/her builder has a very good accountant. I had a very good one and he saved me thousands because he knew how to play (legally) the system. The money you might save when looked at as a percentage could be around the same as the big boys. If it's is good enough for Starbucks, Amazon, Google and Ebay then it is good enough for the little fella. You more than most, with the number of years you lived in France, must know that one of the national sports is to get one over the functionaires (legally that is of course). [;-)]
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Be careful about paying a sum of money in advance, as many French artisans expect.  I had my fingers severely burnt this way.  I paid the deposit to a builder, who had done work for me previously, and then he became ill with depression.  I have still not seen the builder or my money.  Never again.

Also when you sign, you have to use the artisan and cannot use another one without their permission.  A friend had signed her contract for a new roof, paid the deposit that they wanted and then they didn't turn up for weeks.  She ended up having to pay them to release the contract so that she could use someone else - and they kept the deposit.

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Thank you everyone for such great advice. There is so, so much to learn; all whilst doing everything possible to NOT get burnt.

We're meeting with the potential builder for the third time later today; this time at his home he has renovated. We've already asked to see his paperwork and to provide us with referrals, both present and past.

What a mine field this is becoming....

Many thanks!

Richard
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