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Family of builders


oemodm
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Hi everyone,

I would like my father & brother in law to come over to france, stay with us (for 3 months) and help me on my building project (they are from south america). The building project is a house, not intended for re-sale, in a small village. There will be no exchange of money, no contract, and with their passports we can prove their family relation to us.

Would this be a problem?

If not a problem, I would be interested in declaring this to the Marie and local gendarmerie out of respect.

thanks / simon
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Think you have already answered your own question there by informing the Maire and the local gendarmerie of your intent. The only problem I can see is if there is a bad accident and medical treatment is required because normally a holiday insurance does not cover DIY/Building activities.
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The first thing you need to check is whether or not they

require a visitor’s visa, which from some South American countries are required

to visit the European Schengen area. As a visitor they will be allowed into

France for a maximum of 90 days.

 

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In some ways it is nothing to do with France but rather the Schengen area which is basically the EU (with the exception of the UK and Ireland who are not members) as there are no longer 'frontiers' between one member state and another. Having a look around I found a source for the list of countries that require a visa in PDF format on the Netherlands website, link below.

http://www.government.nl/issues/visa-for-the-netherlands-and-the-caribbean-parts-of-the-kingdom/documents-and-publications/leaflets/2012/10/04/countries-whose-citizens-need-a-schengen-visa-for-the-netherlands.html

As Sprogster said the maximum time of stay will be 90 days.

Once you have that and as you are a resident of France (I assume) then you can use the following link (in English) from the French government to apply for a permit which has to be done by post.

http://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/en/coming-to-france/getting-a-visa/

If your not a resident of France but are resident in another EU country (again with the exception of the UK and Ireland) then they will need to apply there. If you are not resident in any EU country then they can't apply. The last link and the links to the forms on that webpage should explain it all for you. One thing I did notice while having a quick look is that it ain't easy, the amount of information they want about you and the people coming is massive and it all has to be proved with backup documents etc. You really need to read it all and digest it before buying any plane tickets to work out if it is really such a good idea.

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Automatic 90 visa entitlement will be their condition, and 90 days is fine.

The accident insurance is a very good point. I figure to have the most dangerous work already done before they arrive.

So in principle, this should be no great problem?

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[quote user="oemodm"]Automatic 90 visa entitlement will be their condition, and 90 days is fine. The accident insurance is a very good point. I figure to have the most dangerous work already done before they arrive. So in principle, this should be no great problem?[/quote]

Wait till you see the forms. You will be sponsoring them and so France wants to know all about you. It means you are responsible for them so if they go 'missing' they come after you as well although I am sure that won't happen. They will want birth certificates from you and them, loads of other infrmation. I would look at the forms and what you need to supply etc before you say 'no problem'. Don't forget all this needs to be done in France before they come and by post [;-)] Actualy that reminds me to add, do everything by registered post.

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The country they come from has automatic entitlement to 90 days. They do not need to apply for a visa. I.e. a UK resident has automatic 6 month entitlement to Hong Kong without applying for a visa.

The visa aside, it's no problem they work with me?

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From what I can see, this falls under the category of "entraide familiale" - which is fine so long as there is no remuneration of any kind - either monetary or other. There are other "tests" that could be applied in the VERY unlikely possibility of a "controle", and you can find out about these by searching "entraide familiale". If you are living in a small place and the presence of your family working on the place might be remarked upon, you might want to tell the maire, but really, just introduce them as your family. They are coming over as visitors and will not be working as such. As was mentioned earlier, problems would arise if anyone were to injure themselves whilst working on your property.

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Where I am coming from is that they may not even get in to the country if the have a passport that is not from Schengen country and that UK and Ireland are not members of the Schengen agrement. So even if they are in the UK but with a none Schengen agreement passport they still can't come to France unless they get a Schengen visa. The rest of it quit frankly I doubt that anyone gives a toss.
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[quote user="Quillan"]Where I am coming from is that they may not even get in to the country if the have a passport that is not from Schengen country and that UK and Ireland are not members of the Schengen agrement. So even if they are in the UK but with a none Schengen agreement passport they still can't come to France unless they get a Schengen visa. The rest of it quit frankly I doubt that anyone gives a toss.[/quote]

But an Australian passport can enter without a visa so it is not only people from Schengen countries that do not need a visa.

As for most of the dangerous work will be done - accidents can happen even when doing what is thought the safest jobs. 

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I would like to avoid this post turning into visa issue. As said, automatic 90 day visas & they've been here already.

The general consensus is that this wouldn't be an issue. Father & brother in law working with me on a building site for upto 90 days (entraide familiale). I like wilko's perspective "just go for it mate" - I will now, knowing if the gendarms turn up I wont be handed a fine.

A check with the Marie will be icing on the cake.

Understand the accident issue & will arrange insurance from origin country. To be honest, an accident will only happen in a cold day in hell - both of them are builders in an environment where health & safety is bit like being in cirque du soleil.

Thanks to everyone's input.

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Simon this is France with very bad health and safety issues and accidents happen as the result of poor PREVIOUS workmanship or installations, OH found this out when starting new projects for clients and unearthing some very very dangerous and unsavoury electrical practices,structural defects and just general "bodge it and scarper" from prevous owners. One house had the main staircase just balancing on two screws at the top which had come unscrewed and the whole thing was beginning to pull away from the first floor, imagine if he had not noticed what was happening because the previous inhabitants nor the new owners certainly didn't and an accident would have been possible fatal! Accidents happen to anyone no matter how careful and cautious they are and at over €850/day without treatment here for a hospital bed,it could be disastrous for anyone on holiday with no proper insurance "just in case".
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This is a little off topic, however I totally agree with you. In fact, safety will be a massive priority. (there are no electrics involved), mainly framing, boarding, insulating & tiling.

Thank you for your concern.
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Definitely let it be known that they are your family that have come to do you a favour.  My brother in law was between jobs and came to do some things which were very visble (ie a new front courtyard) and I was aware of grumblings about 'Brit builders coming over here'.  I introduced him to my neighbours as family and hey presto, everything was fine so a little explaination goes a long way.
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Just do it.

Use common sense and don't tread on any local toes.

Half the people on this forum will be frothing at the mouth, ready to jump on their high horse and lecture you about illegal workers, no insurance blah blah blah etc etc etc ad infinitum.... despite in many cases having no clear grasp of the facts.

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If you saw some of the stuff that I've seen on a daily basis when in France, you'd just go for it. Yes, of course, medical insurance is a necessary add-on, but if they've got the paperwork to come, and the skills to help you, make their presence and family relationship known and crack on!

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Of all the people I know in France - mostly French, some Brits.....its only ever the Brits that stress about this sort of thing.

If a Frenchman had relations coming from half the world away to visit and help with some house repairs, does anyone think they would be worried about possibly being denounced by the Mayors Brother in Laws drinking buddy who is the local plumber? The only thing they would be worrying about is whether they had enough food in the house.

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