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So what is this appeal that is so British


mint
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It is funny how you just know when something is right (I felt like that the very first time I saw Mr Cat! [:D])

We had narrowed our choice down to 3 houses, knowing that we had to buy something pretty soon (due to our rental arrangement running out) & went back for another viewing of each one, all on the same day, with the couple we had been renting from as we greatly valued their opinion.  When we walked into each house we had to admit it just wasn't what we were looking for.  Either too modern, too remote, too small etc. - & not for us.  Panic was starting to set in by this stage.

The very next day we went to a new immo in Jarnac & the lady said "I've got the perfect property for you" ..... & she was right!!  We walked in, started smiling & could see all our stuff (2 cats, nine guitars, strange collection of gargoyles etc.) fitting right in!! [:-))]

We are in the house a year this week - & it's home!!

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Sweet 17 I know exactly what you mean abut your barn feeling 'vacant'. Perhaps it's to do with the space and high ceilings. I work away from home one week out of two and each time I walk into my big family room I feel lost and it takes a couple of days to 'reapropriate' the space - it just doesn't smell like home or feel like home. Your house will come to feel like home but sometimes it just takes time and new experiences to invade the space. A warm fire in the winter and lots of flowers in the summer certainly help. Jen
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[quote user="sweet 17"]In many ways, although we bought in a bit of desperation in the end, we have the stone, converted barn, the land, the wooden beams, the brace-and-ledge doors, etc. etc.  Some would say it's the best of both worlds, old outside and modern and bright inside.  But, and there is a definite but, I feel it lacks character.  Perhaps it's because we are the first family to occupy this place; before that it was just an old ruin.  And no, we didn't tackle the big stuff ourselves.[/quote]

Would it be possible to add a bit of the missing character back into the house.  Replacing some of the "new" fixtures & fittings with old reclaimed ones would be a lot cheaper than moving house.  Not knowing what your house is like (don't worry I'm not angling for an invite!! [:)]) is there the possibility of changing fireplaces, uncovering internal stone walls etc.?  It may be messy - but worth it!

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When we were house-hunting 4 years ago, we fell in love with a huge Manoir which needed renovation...........we were blown away by the space and the outbuildings, and by what seemed to be a huge amount of land (2.5 hectares). It truly was a fabulous house, cost an arm and a leg to just about finish the renovations and it had acres of character - terracotta tiles, beams, huge fireplaces everywhere etc etc. But, we gradually came to realise that it was just too big - we are a family of 4, why did we need 7 bedrooms and 4 reception rooms, and 1500m2 of outbuildings? Great for impressing visitors, but a nightmare to keep clean - heated by wood-burning stoves which chucked dust everywhere.

We started looking for something else...............no-one could understand why we wanted to move, but they didn't have to live there.

We found a lovely stone longere 10 minutes down the road..............for us, it's idyllic, most of the renovation has been done, central heating, new electrics, fosse etc, just a kitchen and bathroom to put in to our own taste, 11 hectares (we have accumulated lots of animals over the years!), a little river meandering through it, and for me, the icing on the cake,an 80 x 40 m sand-school. It has only 3 bedrooms and is so cute. There is an apartment attached which our eldest son is going to have. We love it, and it is so easy to look after - I had always dreamt of buying a chateau (!), but I would never go back to an enormous house again.

Chris

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I took three years to find my house ....Knowing where I wanted to be  location was the number one consideration . I hitched a caravan to the car and for three years while on trips to the Vendee researched the area and  found the place I wanted my second home to be . Being too old  for hard work and  as  the heaviest thing I have ever lifted  at work was a biro.  and lacking in building skills I wanted some place where the work had been done for me and I could move straight  into . Three years ago  after selecting the estate agents I considered were the ones who would be most likely to find the house..... I discovered  that one of them had taken on the sale of the house I now have ... Its an typical Vendeen style older house a "Bungalow " that had been re roofed ..had  new tiiled floors and the major resoration already done for what was an  older  house.  beams... wooden  interior exposed  door lintels etc ...Two bedrooms ..two shower rooms . lounge . big kitchen / dining room .and outbuilding .and walled  and hedged garden  which is  more than big enough for my needs .As the beach is 10 minutes away we find ourselves sitting there and taking a swim  rather than use the garden in the summer .  . Its in the village next to the one I was looking to  find a house in ..but ..it has turned out to have been an advantage as the place I wanted to be has now grown with new builds everwhere  !  There are so many places that Brits fall in love with in France ..Its so easy to  think its possible to turn these places into a dream home with a little effort and a little money ......only for people to find later  thats its a huge effort.... and takes lots of money ... You get older work becomes harder.... a two year project can  grow into a five year project and the task for many must seem endless and the dream dies .Following this forum as close as I do I somtimes wonder how many dreams do die ? ......I think to  "Know your limitations ...do the ground work first.... and expect it to be expensive " is what people should be thinking of when buying old property in France .......unless of course you are rich  !  

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we found ours , a1984 bungalow ........... a new kitchen and bath room required ..........as of now kitchen done ....bathroom ...soon

if you are looking ...........keep looking ..they are all here to be found

coming up to two years and still loving it

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We have what is arguably a British house on the outside and  a French house on the inside. We began planning in 1999 with a view to moving to France in 2005 (postponed to 2006 when younger son took a gap year). We had often visited France (almost all parts) and by the beginning of 2004 had narrowed it down to the one department. We spent the next two years gradually looking round the department (about 7 trips to all points of the compass and taking in all the different areas) but come November 2005 we still hadn't decided on a specific location and with a moving date of May 2006 fast approaching, we decided that the best thing to do would be to find somewhere to rent fairly central in the department so that we could then continue our searches on the ground.

Serendipity! I saw a place on a web site that looked as though it could be ideal. Smallish village, lovely old stone outside, overly renovated on the inside but done with reasonably good taste (although we would never have messed about with the old fireplace), even ADSL. When we visited, that was it, we simply had to take it. Perhaps as a T5 (plus sous-sol, cave and grange=double garage) it's a bit large for two but it works for us since it means we each have our own study and still have two guest bedrooms. A view (over the village and across four valleys) which we considered to be the best we had seen in the whole department (outside of some gorgeous views in the gorges but they were all subject to potentially vicious flooding) although we now know that there are two other locations within about 10km that have even better views.

So, we went through the considerable hassle of getting the rental agreement in place - French immobiliers have it firmly implanted that anyone from the UK wanting to rent will soon find somewhere they want to buy and skip off, dropping the keys in (if lucky) - so we had to jump through lots of hoops. The agreement was set up in February and we moved in May (2006), which allowed plenty of time for occasional visits to ensure that everything (including kitchen appliances, some new furniture and all services) was in place well in advance of the main move.

Barring the unknown we will continue to rent this place at least until we are too old to drive which, since we have French licences, is likely to be "never."

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chessfou

You have really got me re-thinking.  About renting long term, that is.  It wasn't an option that had even crossed my mind, goes to show how "stuck" and "blinkered" we can be.

I'm not saying I'll go down this route, but your post has me going.............hm.......

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Yes, UK mentality is one of the most "fixed" in Europe (renting=dead money; renting=lower social class; all nonsense).

For anyone in our position (option of buying outright, unlike the millions of UK "homeowners" who rent their homes from their mortgage company, or of renting), it makes enormous sense to rent (at least in France - somewhat trickier in UK).

(1) Can we be absolutely certain we will remain in France?

(2) Do our children want to move to France?

(3) If so, is it certain that they would also want to/be able to move to the "middle of nowhere"?

If all three of the above are "yes" then, certainly, buy in order to have the (almost) absolute certainty of permanence but otherwise ...?

(not to mention the fact that stock market returns, over time, generally match or beat house price inflation in real terms, so I would, in general, sooner have the "money" than the "bricks and mortar.")

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Chessfou I must admit, I do find your post extremely misleading.  Yes, the british do have a fixed mentality with renting and should move away from this as renting is of course more suitable in a host of situations and for a host of people.  What concerns me about your post is where you say that UK mentaility considers renting to me dead money which is nonsense.  However, although I will also be renting soon, because it will suit us, I would not do this for the longterm as rents rise with inflation and, I will have nothing at the end of it.  However, if I purchase, I could buy into a fixed rate and, although this sum with asthetically remain the same for a given period, as the cost of living rises, this sum will decrease in real terms.

Also, as a homeowner, with a mortgage I do not consider myself to be renting from my lender.  If I wanted to sell my property I could and again enjoy any potential capital growth on my property.

As for comparing property investment with stocks and shares.........whoa!!

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It's surprising to me how many people who have replied seem to prefer the relatively modern houses. We chose our first place because of the price, the setting and the view - on a hill overlooking a really magnificent view of the Gers hills and the Pyrenees.  3 and a half hectares of sloping land including a pretty lake.  I never got to like the house itself, a 1970s pavillon with sous sol. Lots of lambris and reminded me of a youth hostel. But it did have a huge balcony, so you could sit and look at the view. There was too much work on the land though, and we were lucky to sell it to someone who had horses and wanted it for the land rather than the house. Now we have moved a bit further south, and bought a small old house with a half acre garden, which is habitable, light rooms, cosy and I love it even though there's still some work to do, mainly plastering. We are in a flat valley this time, and have a view of the Pyrenees, but not as dramatic as the last one. I wouldn't want to go back to a modern french house, though in theory there's less work to do.
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[quote user="chessfou"]

(not to mention the fact that stock market returns, over time, generally match or beat house price inflation in real terms, so I would, in general, sooner have the "money" than the "bricks and mortar.")
[/quote]

 

er, are you sure about that? UK Stock market returns over the past 10 years have produced a compound return of 7% pa (assuming dividend is re-invested). Since cpi has increased by about 4% pa, that's a fairly dreadful return. UK house prices by contrast, over 10 years have increased three fold. I think over the long term bricks and mortar are by far the better investment.

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Ten years is but a brief flicker - know anyone taking out a ten year mortgage? Try looking at the returns over 30 years or more (still moderately typical for a modern-day mortgage, I believe, though still a fair way in advance of the 25 over which we did ours).

Last time I looked UK HPI was about 1-2% p.a. (real terms) over 30 years while stock market returns were 3-4% p.a. (again, real terms). The odd per cent or so may not sound a lot but compounds considerably.

But houses or stock market, it's all the same - buy when they're cheap and sell when they're expensive, albeit tricky to do with one's home. [To some extent we managed to do that, in both domains, but I did notice last year that the house next door but one - the "wrong" direction - from our last London house was on the market for a cool £4 million, now that really is expensive.]

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People don't tend to have a 10 year mortgage because they wouldn't be able to afford the repayments.  Because house price inflation has been so high historically, and most people tend to move every 8 years or so,  the length of the mortgage is pretty incidental. Also, if the stock market has done so much better, why the curfuffle about mis-selling of endowments (invariably linked to poorly performing stock investments leading to mortgage shortfall at end of term)? My next door neighbour bought his house in 1975 for 26K. It's now worth £1.2M. Now that's what I call an investment!
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Of course property investment HAS been good - very, very good. I suspect the enthusiasts above are navigating towards the future through the rear view mirror and not looking out of the windscreen (as someone once said).

The future of property? Who knows? Lots of first time buyers are getting help from the bank of Mum and Dad. M & D can help because they have equity in their own property and lived through the golden age of free education, free medical care, cheap energy and plentiful work. Fast forward 30 years or so when we're all dead and that vast sum is spent. A distinct lack wealthy first time buyers will gradually lead to lower prices. That lot have no pensions to look forward to, no decent free health care, big education loans and so on.

Am I right? I don't know. But I'm advising my two not to buy for ages.

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what an interesting thread - we are beginning our search for our future retirememet home in France but instead of looking for the typical English dream of an old stone place that needs or has undergone renovation we will be searching for the perfect building plot - somewhere out in the country of at least 1 hectare and with stunning views. We then aim to have a house designed and built for us  - I love light airy rooms and so many of the older houses are just too claustrophobic with their heavy beams and stone walls - I have in mind a style like the traditional Maison de Maitre with lots of big french windows , tiled and wooden floors and cool paint washed walls - and little or no maintenance !!!.

 

 

Yvonne

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This thread has brought back such lovely memories of our purchase, thanks. Our dream was-

Edge of a village with baker cafe vet doctor, max 15k from a large town, access links to international airport, Old stone house, 1 acre no more, At least room for 4 bedrooms 2 reception, 3 bath, Views to die for, South facing, mostly French neighbours.

Cant say the house appeal was because I'm British, worked and lived outwith the UK since my early 20's, more 'it's France' which appeals, the location was paramount.

As soon as we walked up the drive we knew this was the one. Longere, south Loire, 5 minute walk to village, 9km to large town, good train link to Paris, south facing, amazing views, hamlet of 11 French families, 4 downstairs room, kitchen of sorts, shower sink and loo all in different cupboards, large grenier, 3/4 acre garden, barn over the road. 

Artisan renovation done over 18mths, new roof, electrics, plumbing, fosse septic, mains water, windows, shutters (lavender color), pool, 5 bedrooms, 3 bath, 2 reception, large kitchen-heart of the home. Sold the barn to a farmer neighbour. Mrs A smiles every time we open the gate, as do I. The time is getting close for me to slow down and pass the company to the next generation, looking forward to seeing more of her smiles.

 

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I don't understand what is happening - as an agent here in south 16/17, last weekend I had a French buyer looking at huge old 700k properties with plenty of charm and style, plus a hectare at least, and no major roads, streams, near neighbours or nuisances.  Not as easy to find as you may think!   If anyone is selling such a thing, this buyer has sold up and is ready!! 

Then a growing number of Brits are looking for modern bungalows with not too much land!

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Maybe I've missed something in the renting vs owning debate but as far as I can see, no one has made the point that when you rent, you are at the whim of the owner / landlord.

I know points will be made about how difficult it is to move tenants out, tenants have rights... but while mine may be an old-fashioned view, I generally believe that an owner retains the right (with appropriate terms of notice etc) to do what they want with their property. If an owner decided in 1 / 3 / 5 / 15 years to ask tenants to leave, they are entitled to do so and if I were the tenant I'd feel it morally correct to comply with whatever the terms and conditions of my rental stated.

Therefore I don't think I would ever rent with the expectation that it would be a long-term arrangement for the simple reason I like to be in control of my home.

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While out walking this pm a french neighbour told me he's selling his 5 bedroom picturesque farmhouse, just up the hill from us. Do I know anyone who would like to buy it? I didn't like to tell him that les anglais are turning their backs on old farmhouses, and going for modern stuff. But is anyone interested?
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