Talking kitchens

[Russethouse]

I notice at the beginning of this thread I still had my range cooker - now we have a two Neff ovens (1 large 1 small)  with telescopic racks and an induction hob, Neff again, which I love. if you are having larder units I would still recommend fitting it with pull out wire baskets, I find these very useful....If I could have a built in larder fridge and freezer as separate items I'd do it in a heart beat...

[Gluestick]

For the new kitchen in France, Mrs GS and I are planning zero floor cupboards, but multiple deep, tall draws.

Why?

Since as one becomes older and less nimble, scrabbling around in cupboards on your knees is far from ergonomic. Much better, therefore, to fit drawers and use wall mounted cupboards for dry foods, condiments etc.

Drawers enjoy the huge benefit of allowing one to see at a glance what's in 'em

Neff cookers, again.

Delighted with ours.

[:D]

[mint]

Yes, drawers everywhere, all around the island, hob on the island and a hood that vents the cooking fumes outside and not just recirculated as at present, and some of those pop-up plugs for mixers, toaster etc.

With 3 large full-height units with pull out shelves, I am hoping not to have to have wall units as well.  The installer said wall units finish off a kitchen but I think that without them the room might look more spacious.

If I do have wall units, then they are going to reach to the ceiling so that there will be no grunge to gather on top of the units.

The kitchen bit itself is tiny but I am stuck with the dining area..........not ideal but so be it.

RH, he did mention that Neff ovens are good.  I shall look at Bosch as well as I had one that was excellent but my German friend says that only Miele ovens are any good.

I thought I might even splash out on a Siemens but, as you know, id, I've GOT to get the oven right!

[idun]

IF you end up with wall units that do not reach the ceiling, then put clean newspaper on them and just change it every few months, then they are fine and not grungy.

[Russethouse]

[quote user="mint"]Yes, drawers everywhere, all around the island, hob on the island and a hood that vents the cooking fumes outside and not just recirculated as at present, and some of those pop-up plugs for mixers, toaster etc.

With 3 large full-height units with pull out shelves, I am hoping not to have to have wall units as well.  The installer said wall units finish off a kitchen but I think that without them the room might look more spacious.

If I do have wall units, then they are going to reach to the ceiling so that there will be no grunge to gather on top of the units.

The kitchen bit itself is tiny but I am stuck with the dining area..........not ideal but so be it.

RH, he did mention that Neff ovens are good.  I shall look at Bosch as well as I had one that was excellent but my German friend says that only Miele ovens are any good.

I thought I might even splash out on a Siemens but, as you know, id, I've GOT to get the oven right!


[/quote]

There are so many options on my oven it would be hard to go wrong - circotherm, circotherm intensive, top heat, bottom heat, top& bottom heat, bread, defrosting etc.......We went to a demo day at the local main agent and that was worth while as we could ask lots of questions....Good Luck !

 

[mint]

I had an Irish friend who told me to do this.  Do you have to weigh the newspapers down to stop them from being blown about?

[Loiseau]

I put Fablon-type stuff on mine. Not stuck down (I leave the backing on), so easy to remove and bin when too horrible. But it's heavy enough not to blow about.

Angela

[Quillan]

[quote user="mint"]
I thought I might even splash out on a Siemens but, as you know, id, I've GOT to get the oven right!

[/quote]

We have a Siemens dishwasher as it was the only one at the time that you put the knives and forks in a draw at the top rather than a basket which takes up space. It's OK but having experienced it I wouldn't buy an oven, it’s not what I would call value for money. We have a Smeg range cooker, very good, we saved a lot of money buying online from http://www.mistergooddeal.com/ the RRP was 1939€ and we paid 851€ including free delivery which took three days, a lot quicker actually than I anticipated and allowed for in my kitchen build. We bought our kitchen from Leroy Merlin, if you know how to 'play the loyalty card' you can get 20% off even on sale items (which is on at the moment I believe). That was three years ago and it is as good as new. Just consider that we bash ours about a lot more than most what with doing evening meals etc. We have units with draws and some as cupboards, the latter for kitchen equipment like mixers and food processors as I try and leave nothing on the work surfaces, everything has place somewhere.

[Gardengirl]

It's good to read that your kitchen plan is about to happen, Mint. I'm in France just now and although I've also got a Bosch cooker here, my better one with the telescopic shelves is in UK. I like Bosch for anything, We've got two cookers, two washing machines and tumble dryers (well, one is combined) and two induction hobs.

We went along the M4 to look at either Miele or was it Neff, can't remember, we were very impressed but decided to get the Bosch one mainly for financial reasons. But I'm very happy with my Bosch ovens although I've never had one I just plain couldn't get on with.

I'm not in Idun's class for cooking, nor some of you others - I'm happy to do lots when in the mood, but a lot more depends on how my back is these days, and since last year's op I do a lot less. Thank goodness for M&S and Waitrose!

I was very lucky to have Russethouse's recommendation for my kitchen planner and his team of installers in UK, very local and really good.

I also have only drawers in my UK kitchen, just love not scrabbling about; our planner took drawer fronts and had them fastened together to act as a cupboard doors (but look like drawers) for the dishwasher, cupboard under the sink and the pull-out unit. We have a super one, which is what my husband really desired, pulls out like a wave and so smoothly!

My kitchen in France is very small, so only one lovely drawer - the storage side is very narrow, so had to be cut back, but most ingredients are in low boxes on the shelves, very useful. I have one pull-out which was supposedly for a waste bin, but it has become a bit of a glory-hole for ecloths etc. I suppose I could swing a small kitten in my kitchen in France,but not a cat - NB no animals were used for this!

[Gluestick]

[quote user="mint"]Yes, drawers everywhere, all around the island, hob on the island and a hood that vents the cooking fumes outside and not just recirculated as at present, and some of those pop-up plugs for mixers, toaster etc.

With 3 large full-height units with pull out shelves, I am hoping not to have to have wall units as well.  The installer said wall units finish off a kitchen but I think that without them the room might look more spacious.

If I do have wall units, then they are going to reach to the ceiling so that there will be no grunge to gather on top of the units.

The kitchen bit itself is tiny but I am stuck with the dining area..........not ideal but so be it.

RH, he did mention that Neff ovens are good.  I shall look at Bosch as well as I had one that was excellent but my German friend says that only Miele ovens are any good.

I thought I might even splash out on a Siemens but, as you know, id, I've GOT to get the oven right!

[/quote]

For the oven, Neff! They work!

[:D]

Mrs GS and I were Bosch fans: until our chum (the sales manager of the large local domestic appliance and kitchen firm: they have served us for many years) informed us that Bosch are now made in Turkey!  Hmm.

Thus instead of a Bosch washing machine, we went, on his recommendation, for a Siemens: Mrs GS is thoroughly delighted!

We were going to replace the Hotpoint dishwasher with a Bosch.

The Hotpoint burst into flames, (Sept. 2013), wrecked the nearly new kitchen, put Mrs GS and I in A and E under observation for smoke inhalation, for some hours! And caused loads of damage throught the house............

When I started to carry out an investigation, I found the Hotpoint was actually a Bosch, made under a badge license and the cause - a PCB - was common to Bosch, AEG, Siemens, etc (All same group): so it is going to be a new Miele, thanks you very much.

I can find no service re-calls on Miele.

Please See:

This service recall programme has cost in excess of 1 billion Euros, to date! These machines have caused fires and killed people in Canada, USA, Australia, New Zealand, France, Germany etc!!!

Like most people, we would bang on the dishwasher and toddle off to bed: this happened when I was sound asleep and luckily, Mrs GS wasn't. The Chief Local Fire Officer informed me 3 or 4 more minutes and we would have been history! The vast majority of call outs the Fire Service now respond to are domestic fires, caused by electric domestic appliances; so please be warned..

NEVER leave your dishwasher, tumble dryer, washing machine on and go out or to bed!!!

See here:

Needless to say we are suing Indesit-Hotpoint.......................

[mint]

Thank goodness you are both OK, Gluey!

Just goes to show that, just because you bought something once, you cannot assume that the make is going to be tried and tested.

I did have a Neff oven in a holiday home once but I can't really remember how it performed![:-))]

No objection to paying more if the functionality and quality is good.

More research then...............thanks for the post, Gluey!

[mint]

Thank goodness you are both OK, Gluey!

Just goes to show that, just because you bought something once, you cannot assume that the make is going to be tried and tested.

I did have a Neff oven in a holiday home once but I can't really remember how it performed![:-))]

No objection to paying more if the functionality and quality is good.

More research then...............thanks for the post, Gluey!

[mint]

[quote user="Quillan"]

We have a Siemens dishwasher as it was the only one at the time that you put the knives and forks in a draw at the top rather than a basket which takes up space. It's OK but having experienced it I wouldn't buy an oven, it’s not what I would call value for money. We have a Smeg range cooker, very good, we saved a lot of money buying online from http://www.mistergooddeal.com/ the RRP was 1939€ and we paid 851€ including free delivery which took three days, a lot quicker actually than I anticipated and allowed for in my kitchen build. We bought our kitchen from Leroy Merlin, if you know how to 'play the loyalty card' you can get 20% off even on sale items (which is on at the moment I believe). That was three years ago and it is as good as new. Just consider that we bash ours about a lot more than most what with doing evening meals etc. We have units with draws and some as cupboards, the latter for kitchen equipment like mixers and food processors as I try and leave nothing on the work surfaces, everything has place somewhere.

[/quote]

Q, just a quick thank you for the link to that site.

I can get a Smeg pyrolyse oven and microwave for 700 odd euros, wonderful deal.

Tell me, Q, is Smeg Italian?

I am wary of Italian things, the designs are beautiful but the build quality can be less than impressive?

[Quillan]

According to there website as well as being Italian design all the ovens and cookers are made in Italy. As to build quality, well mines still going without fault and I do a lot of cooking what with guest dinners and all. The main oven is very quick to heat up, bit like cars in a way, mine does 0 to 200 deg C in just over 4 minutes, I timed it once, how sad is that. I do like to have two ovens and I do like the fact I can run one as a fan oven and the other as an ordinary oven. Some things cook better in an ordinary oven.

Had a Miele hoover, very good but my Sebo is better. I also have two Miele washing machines which I have had for four years and when you consider they do on average four washes a day thats pretty good going. I have a Bosch tumble drier thats about six years old and the plastic insides are starting to go and it now makes a clunking noise. Again though in the winter it can do about six loads per day.

[woolybanana]

Smeg comes from Smegland, where the Gooliewumps live. Surely you knew that, Nimt.

One point about IKEA kitchens; the base units of the current range are a little bit higher than the old oner, or so I was told when I looked at them when the new models came out a few months ago.

Which might make it difficult to mix 'n match makes and styles, if such if your intention.

By the way, having installed and adapted any number of kitchens, I have come to the conclusion that the whole thing is a bloidy racket, most people having been brainwashed into thinking they need a load of covered chipboard that they dont need.

Best idea is a complete wall of pull out full height drawer cupboards so you can see everything immediately. If you have the island as a preparation area then this is quite doable as it is ideally directly behind you.

As to islands, just put a few units back to back and slap a decent worktop on top and it is done, with the electric sockets ON THE SIDE.

And, if you are gonna have the sink there, make sure that the pipework is entirely accessible as well as the drains so you dont need to pull up half the floor to get to it.

In other words, arrange it so you do not have your back to guests etc.

And a small breakfast bar saves messing around with laying up tables etc.

Just a few thoughts.

Arrange it so that nothing sits around as it will get mucky. Quilcklime is right about that.

[Judith]

Mint,

In case it helps, I replaced oven and hob about a year ago.  I got a neff oven with a door which folds under, though the shelves are not telescopic, with a narrow / smallish kitchen I find it ideal.  I bought an AEG induction hob, because we do not have gas and I hate bottle gas .. liked the neff hob but it didn't quite fit .. the hob has 4 rings, all with 15 levels of adjustability, plus a power level (boils within seconds ..) and each "pair" of "rings" can be linked together to  make 2 large hobs .. which I don't use as I don't have a pan big enough, but maybe one day..

We also removed the cooker hood as OH used to bang his head on it, it didn't work (or only the light did) and we have doors and windows to open if needed. We replaced it with a better light and a rack for utensils - much  better, and no  banged heads.  I've only ever once had a cooker  hood, and that was in  my London flat ... can't see the use of them really.  Only used it when I was boiling spaghetti! 

I'd like to change my work top colour, but seems that is difficult without destroying the whole kitchen, but yes, if I did anything else, it would be get drawers instead of cupboards. .. it is ever  harder to get down and to the back of them ...

Hope the planning is going well ...

[Quillan]

Cooker hoods, we needed a 90cm one which  bought from Brico depot for something like 140 Euros and it is very good. Can go through the wall (my favorite) or recycle. All the fittings are included for both types of fitting. Has two filters, one each side that are the size of small dinner plates and just twist on. They are always in stock and are under 20 Euros for a pair and we are still on the first set. Nice stainless steel pre filter that goes straight in the dishwasher (I put them in with all the bits from the gas hotplate about once a month). We looked at hoods in other shops and they cost a fortune. This one is smart, glass and stainless steel, and means we had extra money to spend elsewhere ie. a Kenwood Chef with all the bits (I like my kitchen gadgets).

I found the cooker hood, it looks better in real life but it is now 169 Euros

http://www.bricodepot.fr/carcassonne/hotte-verre-inox-90-cm/prod2437/

Good news, the filters are sold in single packs and the price has gone down to 6 Euros each

http://www.bricodepot.fr/carcassonne/filtre-a-charbon/prod10796/

Note - not good for small thin people, it sucks really hard and we might not see you again. [;-)]

[Chancer]

I stopped using cooker hoods a few years back, all they did was get dusty and greasy, now I put a VMC outlet in the ceiling above the hob, the space vacated by the coker hoods gets filled by eye level microwave ovens and a fit a striplight underneath.

[mint]

Thanks for all the new input, guys.

I might well think twice about a cooker hood now that that's been mentioned.

It's true that OH might well bang his head on it and knock himself out!  That's just the kind of likely scenario that I can imagine only too well and he'd be annoyed with it and I'd be annoyed with HIM ...............

Chance, I already have a VMC in the kitchen and the installer said that that would be left.

The other thing about cooker hoods is that the fan could be noisy but I do always, always use mine as I don't like cooking smells lingering.  Perhaps I could get a small one?  Or perhaps I could have a large and efficient extractor fan in the kitchen?

It's a tiny space but the eating area is a reasonable size.

I really appreciate all your tips as I haven't had a kitchen from new for more than 20 years and I don't want to spend time and money only to end up with something unsuitable.

[Gluestick]

[quote user="mint"]Thanks for all the new input, guys.

I might well think twice about a cooker hood now that that's been mentioned.

It's true that OH might well bang his head on it and knock himself out!  That's just the kind of likely scenario that I can imagine only too well and he'd be annoyed with it and I'd be annoyed with HIM ...............

Chance, I already have a VMC in the kitchen and the installer said that that would be left.

The other thing about cooker hoods is that the fan could be noisy but I do always, always use mine as I don't like cooking smells lingering.  Perhaps I could get a small one?  Or perhaps I could have a large and efficient extractor fan in the kitchen?

It's a tiny space but the eating area is a reasonable size.

I really appreciate all your tips as I haven't had a kitchen from new for more than 20 years and I don't want to spend time and money only to end up with something unsuitable.

[/quote]

The extractor I opted for, mint, was a three speed jobby, venting to outside: OK, it is noisy on full (two turbo fans) and is excellent. The main filter is simply removed and washable. I too hate cooking smells permeating the house, so I also fitted another powerful wall fan above the work surface in the "Cooking Area", again, venting to outside: mainly for the kettle, toaster and the occasional use of the deep fat fryer.

Out of interest, I have this evening posted a few pics to Photobucket in a dedicated album, named, strangely enough, "Kitchen"!

[:)]

They show the kitchen, just after basic install, but before final finishing and installation of new washer, microwave etc.

They also include some of the Post-Fire pics for comparison: the destroyed dishwasher is frightening............

Here:

The album is public so should be viewable.

[Quillan]

[quote user="mint"]

It's true that OH might well bang his head on it and knock himself out!  That's just the kind of likely scenario that I can imagine only too well and he'd be annoyed with it and I'd be annoyed with HIM ...............[/quote]

There no default height for a cooker hood so if he bangs his head on it blame the installer for mounting it to low.

[Chancer]

[quote user="mint"]
The other thing about cooker hoods is that the fan could be noisy but I do always, always use mine as I don't like cooking smells lingering.  Perhaps I could get a small one?  Or perhaps I could have a large and efficient extractor fan in the kitchen?

[/quote]

You already have the largest and most efficient extraction fan already in existence with your VMC, assuming that it is switched on then it will cost you nothing, its very very rare that I need to turn mine on the higher setting, only the rare times that I make smoke, there is never a steam problem even on the lowest setting, the kitchen would normally have one of the larger VMC outlets.

In the UK, my converted shed, the plaque has a window right behind it, a sort of vitreous credence [:P], even that doesnt steam up when there is a pan boiling a few cms in front of it with the VMC on the low, silent setting.

[idun]

I might change my work surfaces next year, I won't be changing my kitchen as getting this done doesn't destroy a kitchen, some work involved, yes, and if there is a built in hob (I haven't got one at the moment) and the sink need to be lifted first, and then last back in at the end. The rest is just lifting the old work surfaces up and the new ones going in.

Utensils on the wall near the cooker, or behind the cooker [:'(] no, not in this house. Mine are on my kitchen window, some distance from the cooker, and I have lots of them. Some items I used everyday, but sometimes I go for utensils that I use maybe once a week or less and they are not clean enough to use immediately when I go for them. If I had a spare drawer, maybe some of these things would go in it, but I don't have any room for them.

I have enough floor standing cupboards in my kitchen, but I don't really have food in lower cupboards. Any food stuffs are in wall cupboards, apart from cooking oils and vinegars. My joy is that I did get a pantry built in my kitchen. I can walk in it and I can see all my tinned stuffs and all storage foods at a glance on their open shelves and I love that. On the top shelves are things like raclette sets and fondue sets and stuff I use rarely and can see where they are immediately.

And as I cook a lot, I would not be without a hotte. I have always had a VMC and in spite of that, love having a hotte, hate cooking smells through the house and there in the Alpes there was no way I was having a window open in winter, or summer, letting flies in, and I don't want windows open here in my kitchen.

I remember my sil wanted drawers for her pans, not something I have considered necessary, in spite of my reduced mobility, ie when I get down on my knees, it takes some time for me to get back up.

I always watch very carefully what other people are getting in their kitchens and how display kitchens are set out. I know how I cook and my needs these days. ie two friends have quite big and square kitchens and the kitchen sink is on the opposing side of their big kitchens from the cooker. And there is no way on earth I would be wandering round with pans of boiling water full of veg. I don't want my sink next to my cooker, but a couple of paces away is best for me. I also, don't like these ovens that are amidst tall kitchen units and no obvious place to plonk or just gently place something that is cooking, to check it is baked or to baste.

My list of 'must haves' in my kitchen were

1) walk in pantry

2) work surfaces at a comfortable working height

3) hotte

4) be able to eat in the kitchen, preferably a table with chairs

5) sink and cooker not too far apart

6) work surface shelf

7) good cooker.......... right royally borrocksed that one up though!

The rest is, for the space available, a decent working kitchen.

[Quillan]

Now then I have done a search on oven reviews and it seems Which has done several over the years. I happen to know that somebody in this thread has access to Which reports. So if the person who has access could PM the person looking and perhaps send them the data it might help them make a decision. Said 'Which' person gave me an electronic copy of the report on dishwashers a few years back and it was very helpful. (and no I haven't been drinking).

[Rose]

Hello - I'm being a bit naughty here as I've not read all of the last 16 pages... but I just wanted to say I've had 2 IKEA kitchens and I love them.  I've used the online planner to organise both which is great when you arrive in the shop with your printed shopping list... the planner is a bit slow and clunky but does the job.

Also, I LOVE drawers - I will never buy a cupboard without drawers again.

You're welcome to come and visit and take a look if you're passing my corner of the Dordogne  [:D]

p.s. I bought a SMEG cooker and paid a small fortune for it and that was a big big mistake... but I have a Liebherr Fridge that I got from Darty and it's great and Darty have also been good.

Sorry for being lazy xx