thanks for the replies but sorry to report tim that the new installation procedure which you suggested didn't work. one of the receivers has version 2.8b which is from before the new card with the yellow house. I have emailed panasonic and they just don't reply,even after a phone call ,and being told that my query would be passed on to the technical dept ,Igot nothing. as I say this is only a problem with the model 31 and if this model is left connected it will take the automatic updates but must not be left disconnected too long. please let me know if you hear of any other possible solutions. regarding the rs232 port ,i am sure that during manufacture the software will be loaded through this port,some of the french sat receivers can be connected together and software transferred between receivers, but no doubt the communication software is pre loaded in each receiver menu.