Mistral

Someone once asked my daughter what colour she thought she was, after a long pause she said "beige?" SB, back to your question. I don't think that négre is an acceptable word to most french people (although it shocks french people  lot less than the english translation would us) Strangely," négresse" seems more acceptable to most people. As christine animal said, négre is also a term for a ghost writer.  

[quote user="Tourangelle"] well if we are being pedantic, a kid who has good enough marks to take a bac S will often do so even if they do better none scientific subjects.  It is mad, but they all want to do S, it drives me up the wall, but it is a question of "prestige" [/quote] I've got a case of that at the moment. An excellent pupil who actually prefers the "L" subjects but no-one wants to hear that. Her parents and nearly all the teachers are pushing her to take an "S" option next year. The logic being that if at the end of 2nde she wants to switch from ISI to theatre, she can, but the reverse would be difficult. The attitude seems to be if you can do "S" then you ought to, even if you don't actually want to. It's always been like that, the old bac C had far more prestige compared to A.  

Thanks for your comments tmto. Of course you're right, in the bacs there are different coéfs.  But we were talking about bulletins trimestriels in collège and all the way through collège and at least for the 2nde general at lycée, all subjects have the same coéficiant. All subjects also have the same weighting for the control commune at the brevet. [quote user="tmto"] Not exactly - firstly, making a moyenne générale out of all the other moyennes is mathematically flawed as some teachers give out more tests than others. You can't make a moyenne générale by taking the moyenne of a subject where a student has only been tested twice, and adding it on to a moyenne where he has been tested ten times, and then just divide by two. [/quote] Unfortunately this is exactly what happens, both on the bulletins and for the brevet. Which is another reason I dislike it. [quote]At the lycée level this generally priviliges the subjects in which a pupil is better at, because a kid who tends to get better marks in scientific subjects will probably choose to pass a bac scientifique.[/quote] Thanks for that info, I'll be sure to pass it on to my 3emes while I discuss the relative merits of a bac STL over a STG and whether it is better to do ISI+ISP or ISI+LV2.

SB, part of the problem is that I only know what happens in my own class. Personally, I don't call out grades as I give copies back, nor do I give them back in grade order (that sounds like hard work to me, you need to sort them! Mine go back in the order they came in) But from what pupils say, quite a lot of teachers do one or the other. I announce the best and worse grades before (without names of course) and the best grade gets a special stamp so they don't spend all hour asking everybody what they got to find out if they were best. (but then I have effort stamps and progress stamps as well- to my pupils' delight and my colleagues confusion) How moyennes are used and veiwed depends on each teacher and on the overall attitude in the school. Even if schools can't build a "school ethic" in the same way as the UK, some things can permeate. I spend a fair amount of time explaining to pupils that the word "moyenne" as used here, is almost impossible to translate into English. Who wants to be average? As SB and TU have said, everything is graded out of 20 (or 10 or 40 .... and then recalculated) and then you average it out to work out what the pupil's moyenne for the term is. There is no "effort" grade, just what they got in their tests. People here comment on the number of tests pupils have, well one of the reasons is that the more tests they have, the more accurate the moyenne will be. Something like education civique which is an hour every fortnight, may only have one test all term. If a particular pupil doesn't manage that test, then that's the only grade he has. I cope OK with the moyene idea (maybe I've been here too long) but I HATE the moyenne general, where you make a moyenne out of all the subject moyennes. It doesn't anything, I mean a pupil ends up with ten when he has 1 in maths and 19 in education civique. But since the moyenne general is used for the brevet and the bac it's difficult to avoid. During conseils de classe there is usually a table with all the moyennes and the class moyenne in every subject. but quite honestly most people have got better things to do that work out who did best. I know that it's the first thing the pupils (and unfortunately most of the parents) do. I just check that their grades in english are frighteningly worse than in other subjects! Some schools don't print the moyenne gen, which I think is a good idea. My previous school used to have a M4 as well which was french, maths, english and Hist:géo. That's really putting the other subjects in their place! A "good" moyenne depends on the level. For example in primary you would expect around 15 whereas in 2nde 15 would be extrememly good. Then you get useless teachers who over grade pupls to keep them quiet (did I really say that?) and others who have very high levels of expectation. (me apparently) The magic number is 10! Having "la moyenne" is what it's all about. 9.5 is just not good enough! This is an old idea that comes from the era (which I'm not sure ever really existed) when if you had 10 you went on to the next class and less than 10 you stayed down another year. Things are developing slowly. In the years I've been going to conseils I've noticed that comments are less about how a pupil  who has got 8 could do better and more discussions on if this is the best he can do. There are many more comments on what we think a pupil is capable of and if he is fulfuilling his potential. this is quite radical and some of the old guard have trouble with it (it means they actually have to think about individual personalities) it means that conseils take longer but they are maybe slightly more human.  

Thanks for the link. That was a very interesting article. I'm going to print it out and show it to a few colleagues. I get very frustrated at how so many teachers here refuse to see how difficult it is for kids to be expected to function in a foreign  (all senses of the word) language all day every day and how soul destyroying it can be. I particularly appreciated the comment about "being imprisoned by one language and exiled from another" I came here as a young adult with a degree in french and even so, I had days when I felt like that.  

We're not actually supposed to give either "encouragements" (I mean the official term on the bulletin) or "felicitations" any more. This came from some parents going to court a few years back complaining that an "avertissment" on their son's bulletin was permemantly there and could count against him even years later. So now we can't put any comments like that, either negative or positive. Most schools get round it by using "nous vous félictons....." in their comments, but some cheerfully ignore the law. My new headmistress has decided to allow the positive comments but put an avertissment on a separate sheet. In some schools, the are calculated on the moyenne general, so you get fel for above 15 and enc for above 13. I don't mind for fel, but I feel that enc should be for any noticable efforts whether work, attitude whatever. Wen, it's a pity that the teachers haven't taken your son's progress with the language and integration into account. We try to do that with our primos. If he is above class average, I think I would certainly have suggested "encouragements" at least if he was in my class. We are supposed to have three parts to the bulletin comments (and at one point they were supposed to split into three boxes) first we are supposed to describe the situation, then we should expalin why and last say what the child should do to improve. Being positive isn't in the rules.  This is consistant with how the thinking works in france; you are always on the look for what can be improved. For the 1/2 days. I'm a bit confused. If he's been signed out than he shouldn't be counted as absent (I'll check with our CPE tomorrow on that one when I sign my own son out at 1.30) or I suppose it counts as a  absence justifié. Are you sure he's on the right regime de sortie? In my school there are three; (1) they have to stay until the end of the day whatever their timetable says or even if teachers are absent (2) they have to be in collège according to their timetable even if a teacher is absent (3) they can leave once they have no more lessons.  So as an example; If a class has french from 2.30 to 3.30 and then nothing,  The first group will stay until 4.30, the second and third groups will leave at 3.30. If the french teacher is absent, group (1) still stays until 4.30, group (2)still stays until  3.30 and group (3) can go home at 2.30  

Double post the system won't let me delete- sorry

[quote user="HLG"] If the lycee's blockaded, a good solution is to join the protest and see what it's like. It's a cultural experience like no other. Afterwards, the students who wish to go to class can always claim legitimacy "I was at the protest yesterday but today I've got a really important test". :-)  In virtually all cases, they'll be allowed to enter.[/quote] Good idea in theory but my local lycée has been blocked for the last week and nobody is getting in whether they did a few marches or not. One of my husband's old pupils turned up at his collège yesterday saying that his bac blanc has been cancelled once and is probably going to be cancelled a second time. He's getting just a bit fed up. [quote user="jond"] the Union at Bristol being run by a bunch of complete gits who just saw the various officers posts as potential springboards to a political career [/quote] I watched one student union rep on the news who was 26 and still a student. She had obviously put her studies on hold while she got on with being political and you could see that her aim was to move on to one of the big guns (you saw her in major discussions with Bernard Thibault)

I thought most of the people demonstrating were students and they were targetting the lycées  to get the lycéens to join the fight as well.  I agree that demonstating is one thing, stopping people from getting the education they choose is another. On a side note; a friend's lycéen son and friends demonstated last Tuesday (the strike day) against the CPE, the just didn't realise was the CPE was and demonstrated against the Conseilleur Principal d'Education.  

Honestly, I'd be surprised if they'll let them use your maiden name on any official documents and thinking about it, I'm not sure the new law would have worked for you as this would have allowed you to add to a french birth certificate not a UK one. But I have pupils at school (born before the law came into action) who use both parents' names on their school documents. I think it's just the parents' decision to have both names and I know that even on their school registration papers they have put both names. I assume that only one is on the birth certificate or ID card. If you do decide to this, it would probably be best to use a combination of your maiden name and their birth names although birth name-second husband's name might be possible. Don't forget that for the french you still have your maiden name. I think having your ex's written permission would be a good idea. Didn't you say you already had it? On a side note: the school will probably ask his name and address because they are supposed to send reports to both parents.

[quote user="Debra"].  We were told that women always use their maiden name in France.  [/quote] Legally, the name you are born with is the only name have all through life. The law allows you to have a nom d'usage, which can be whatever you choose. You just have to contact the "authorities" and tell them that you now want to known as X. When you get married, you can use your husband's name as a nom d'usage if you want but you don't have to. For everything administrative you keep your maiden name. this is why the carte vitale is maiden name, epouse married name. When I took the french teaching exams, I thought I was in the wrong room as the desks were set out in alphabetical order and I went to the part of the room where my married name would be. When we married (in france) my mum was a bit surprised to hear that I was daughter of my dad (his name) and my mum (her maiden name) not of mr and mrs. [quote]We also understand that when we move to France my children will have to revert to using my first husband's surname, when in fact he agreed for my current surname to be added onto the end of their names and so all their current doctor's records, school records and passports show my children having the same last name as my current married name.  Their records in France will then match with their birth certificates but not their passports.  [/quote] There is a new(ish) law that allows a couple to choose to give either parent's name to their children (or both combined) So you should have the right to use your ex-husband's name combined with your maiden name (but not your second husband's name) The law is for new births but until the end of June you are allowed to use it to change names of children under a certain age (I think it's 13, but I'm not sure)

There is a law that states that married women have the right to use their maiden name, I have friends who actually keep a photocopy in their bag to prove this. If they divorce on the other hand, they can only continue to use their ex husband's name if he gives them written permission. My son is at the school I teach in, I filled in all the registration forms with both our names but the bulletin still comes addressed to my husband. I know of one mother who fills in the "other parent's name and address in case of divorce" part just to have her name somewhere. Out of interest, the law allowing women to vote was passed in 1945 and they voted for the first time in 1946. Before that it was seen as unnecessary because they would obviously vote the same way as their husbands. In fact there used to be three towns with seperate men/women urns to prove this (they actually proved the opposite) In 1964 a law was passed that allowed married women to open a bank acount, and have a passport without having to ask for their husband's permission. Sometimes I wonder if everybody is aware of this. The law stting that both wife and husband are "chef de famille" and have authorité parental is much more recent, late eighties I think.

Ah no, most of them don't want to join the civil service. This big problem with being a fonctionnaire is mouvement national. They could find themselves posted to another region and  for a lot of them that's a complete no no.  

I have heard that pupils must continue at collège with the languge they did at primaire, but I've never seen the actual text. But at the same time, my collège has german LV1 and it was only taught in one of the local primary schools. There are pupils in the german class this year who went to different primary schools, didn't do German and aren't in our zone de recrutement. So I would take what your being told with a fair amount of salt and give the link TU gave you a try. Remember that fonctionnaires aren't always very good with things they aren't sure about and tend to give you a catagoric answer based on what they feel and not on facts. I would also try to meet the principal of the collège you are hoping for to discuss your reasons with him/her. He/she will know if they have already had pupils in that situation.  

Service militaire has been phased out over the last 10 years or so. It went from 2 years, to 18 months, then to 10 months and now it's a "journée du citoyen" which I have a feeling they just use to get statistics on a single age group. I think they are supposed to have lessons during that day on how to be a good citizen and how to vote (or something like) but I haven't had any echos back yet. It's both boys and girls now. 16 year old french people are supposed to register with the mairie. I can't remember the exact details on the dual nationality thing, but yes, when the service was still in place dual nationals were supposed to do it. I think there were agreements between france and other countries who also had national service about whether they did both or only one and if so which one. I have heard stories of french nationals who had never set foot in france not being able to visit even on holiday unless they wanted to do their service.  The blurb from the british embassy always reminds you that if you have dual nationality, having British nationality doesn't exempt you from doing national service in the other country  

[quote user="KathyC"] I have not heard of anyone on these boards planning to take out French nationality. [/quote] No, I'm not planning on doing it, I 've already done it. I didn't wait until then to start commenting on the country. I live here, work here, pay French taxes and send my (french) children to French schools.  I feel that whatevever my nationality is/was my point of view was a valid as the next person's.

I think Tourangelle went through her teacher training more recently than me, so she is probably more up to date with what happens in an IUFM but I felt that in the one year I spent as a stagiaire much more emphasis was put on the actual subject and on teaching it the "correct" way (i.e the way the inspector wants) than on different techniques or adapting to the pupils. I sometimes watch Teachers TV and I'm amazed by the ideas and discussions that seem normal in the UK.  A recent discussion in the staff room came to conclusion that most of us are "self-taught". Most teachers I know are frustrated by this. We know that we are faced with with kids that need our help and we have no idea how to help them.  I think teacher attitudes are as varied as teachers themselves. Part of the problem in the state system comes from the fact that there are still people who choose teaching because it's a civil service job and not because they actually want to teach. The SEGPA discussion is a difficult one. My last school had a SEGPA and the criterium for pupils was a "echec scolaire massif et durable" In my academie, if teachers want a pupil to go to SEGPA, first they must see the parents and get their permission for a psycologist's report (I have known situations where the psy has decided that the pupil's IQ is too high to go into SEGPA) if the psy report is postitive then there is a teacher's report. All these elements are collected together along with others before the commission de SEGPA who actually decide (there are 2 per year) it is impossible to put a child in SEGPA without the parents' permission. I've seen pupils blossom once they went into SEGPA. You could see how much they were suffering in the "normal" system. My worry/frustration is that when a pupil is having difficulties, some teachers immediately label him SEGPA material. They can't cope, don't want to cope and pass the problem on to someone else, even if the SEGPA isn't the solution. The system is so rigid that it's very difficult to adapt to any child who has "different" needs. In my current school, we don't have a SEGPA but a 3eme Insertion (not the same thing at all- but still for pupils with difficulties) and it's amazing the percentage of non French speaking pupils in it. OK, so maybe a child who is having trouble following the curriculum needs extra help, but if it's because of language difficulties, then the help should be there.  

French "fête des grands-meres" is even worse. It was invented a few years back by café grand mère as an advertising angle. I refuse to get involved in that sort of thing. I'm not sure my mother in law is happy about that, but that's not my problem (I'll buy her a pack of coffee is she wants, but she only drink chicorée)  

Is that a general strike or just something teaches/schools related ? Ian It looks more than the education sector, the transport unions are calling for it as well (at least the usual suspects of Paris and the South) and varying other "foctionnaire" unions. http://fr.fc.yahoo.com/g/greve.html  SB, how come he's not going back on Monday? Zone A gets a day more than us, (zone B) that doesn't sound fair!  

There is a strike planned for this Tuesday (7th march) It seems to be against the CPE (contract premiere embauche) where during the first 2 years an employer can sack an employee without having to justify his decision (or at least that's how it's presented here on the telly, I'm assuming there's more to it than that) More info here: http://www.snes.edu/snesactu/une.php3 Child #3 (maternelle) has no class and no cantine. Child #2 (primaire) has no cantine. Child #1 (collège) hasn't said anything, but then the school has to take him in even if there aren't any teachers and the cantine has to allow him to eat sandwiches there even if they don't provide a hot meal. Looks like another day of teaching half classes. At least I'll get some oral work done.  

[quote user="DebraA64"] (and something beginning with H I think) dictionary from Geant.  [/quote] Hachette? I've got the big Collins/Robert, the 1978 edition (1982 reprint). One of my university tutors always said he could tell which dictionary we had used by our translations. The 1978 Collins/Robert had a wider range of words than later editions but obviously lacked more recent words. When I have had to use a different dictionary, I have never found it as practical but I think that has a lot more to do with habit. I understand how the Collins/Robert works  

[quote user="DebraA64"] why on earth would they peel them??  [/quote] Because you don't eat potato skins (shock! horror !etc) Not peeling them is for cooking, not for eating! I'm not saying that no french person eats unpeeled potaoes but my in-laws were horrified to see me doing it (they still are but they're used to it now)  

My son is using a school bus now he is in collège because the school is the other side of town (a good 20 minute walk away) but he didn't need a bus for primary school. I live in a medium sized town (25,000 inhab) so there are loads of primary schools. Children should go to their nearest primary school and, here, it will be within walking distance. This doesn't stop most parents driving them and parking on the yellow lines, the pedestrian crossing and the disabled space.[:@]    

Our town set one up for a month last year to test the idea and to show parents it was possible. It was only for one school (out of the 10 or so primaries we must have here) and I never noticed it in action. It's a pity that so many parents automatically use their cars when taking kids to school. On rainy days there's no point even trying to get in or out of our road at school times.

[quote user="Tresco"] Even when they ask for the drinks, the item, or whatever, the replies are directed to me. [/quote] This is really frustrating, but you learn to live with it (or find taller friends who will do the asking for you) More annoying are things like having to ask people to get things down from top shelves or having to climb up yourself (I have no qualms about "borrowing" stools in shops) or, the worst one, getting stuck in chest freezers because the last pot of ice-cream is right on the bottom. Then you have trvia like being asked to fill in a form at the post office and you can't actually write properly because the counter is armpit height. And don't get me started on the lack of petite clothing in France... I don't look as small as I am (exactly 5ft) and  the one things that makes me "snappy" is when people who know me well suddenly say "oh aren't you small?" as if I've suddenly shrunk.