Ormx

A discussion on being "foreign" in France got me thinking about people moving here and hoping to integrate. Language, obviously, is vital. Finding like-minded people who become friends. Getting involved in local community etc. etc. etc. But do you think you will eventually be regarded as a local, or will your children? Or will you forever be the *insert nationality here* that moved here back in nineteen hundred and....? I believe I will always be the Irish woman who moved here and think my children will probably feel French in time. Having said that I do read the local papers, have a good level of French and, unlike previous experiences abroad, am not trying too hard this time!!! Just wondering about your thoughts on this?    

Very good read, well done, keep it up!

Well I'm not going to say anything. Last time I tried to say something positive about education I was accused of being very Front National. The negatives always win on the education question as they spend the most time posting.   Oops, did I just say something?

No to your last question. I  do enjoy some of the useful info here, but hate when the education system is brought up as the same few people continue to complain about it. I believe the system is as good as the Irish one with some advantages, and far superior to the British one (many reasons why, that is another thread). Of course it has some bad points (learning by rote is not always bad though) but so do all. What upsets me is that people reading these posts are put off coming to France. I have received several private messages from people who can't be bothered posting (expecting to be told to stay away, their children will be better off with English qualifications) and need some info on schooling and some positive input. I'm glad I didn't find this forum until after I moved here!! Many French people actually believe the system is good, and graduated, and got jobs and are able to think for themselves. These are the people I know.

I think complaining about one's own system is different from foreigners complaining about it (with undertones of "it's much better in the UK). Also French people may complain about their education system but do they really say the kind of things you are saying about the French race in general i.e. lack of ability to think for themselves, etc. ?

Most condescending generalizations I've ever heard. Do you people actually KNOW any French people or is it all based on what you read in the English News? The French questioned the Bush war on Iraq (Blair followed the big superpower like a sheep).

Hi, Try the "Serie Bleue" maps. These are detailed maps of an area and can be found in any good bookstore! HTH

Every child is different. 14 is a difficult age. If it's your dream you should follow it because there'll always be another excuse to wait if you don't. I went to France when I was 15 for a 3-week exchange with a pen-pal and went with her to school for the last day of term. Hardly long enough to form an opinion I hear you shout - it was miserable, I hated everything about it, but it made me grow up and I learned a lot. I went to teach English in a lycee in Nantes. I was just a few years older than my pupils at the time. I was amazed at their maturity, the variety of subjects they learned, their plans for the future. And they weren't miserable with the amount of homework they got either. I hope my kids are like that when they're that age. I sometimes watch teenages in restaurants and the way the interact with one another. They're actually able to converse with the opposite sex in front of their parents, far cry from the sniggering we did as teenagers. We moved to Gers last July and kids 4 and 2 are in local maternelle. They love it. They will be able to choose from a variety of subjects and specialise in what they are good at. If they are not academically inclined they can choose to go to the local lycee agricole or whatever. And not feel like a drop out or a failure. It's just another path and one to be proud of. Your child will enter this system with a disadvantage or two that may need a year to sort out. She may do her bac later than she would have, but so what. As for unemployment, what's that got to do with it? There was no employment in Ireland when I left school, or college, so I emigrated and got loads of experience and went back, and guess what, there's lots of jobs there now and I don't want to live there. OK time to stop waffling. If it feels right, do it and keep your child involved at every stage. And stay positive.

Small example: 2 grand cremes and 2 menthe a l'eau : On Sat these 4 drinks came to 2 euros in Gers region  ("oh we didn't bother putting the menthe on the bill"), but to be fair the price of coffee varies inexplicably, so can sometimes be as much as 1.50 a cup!! Today on a day-trip to Biarritz it came to a whopping 10 euro (3 euro for coffee, 2 for menthe). Now Biarritz comes closest to prices in Dublin.

Graham, I was in a similar position to your wife, except in my case it's my OH who's French. I arrived here at 6.5 months pregnant, and was told when I tried to book a gyne that it was August (for Heaven's sake!) and they were all on holidays! I had just been in a car accident (2 weeks after arriving here) so I told them it was an emergency and they gave me an appointment. They were shocked that I didn't have previous records with me (doctor in Ireland had told me not to bother getting hospital records of previous 2 babies as the had been normal births) and no printout from scan at 4 months. But I went straight into the system (OH was registered so I went under his Carte Vitale) - the doctor did have to sign a letter to send to CPAM (?) to say he was taking me on (normally done earlier in pregnancy as in earlier post) and late due to "administrative" reasons! I had no problems (except the shock at their VERY thorough examinations Experience was basically the same as in Dublin, except accommodation was far superior (wouldn't be hard) and midwives were very condescending But I have a beautiful baby boy, 5.5 months and growing, ahhhhh!!

Excellent, next time keep the newspaper, wait until next week's with last week's answers, memorize them, reproduce them in last week's paper, and, knowing your luck it'll be someone without a word of English!   (just wondering why you'd -1 (Minus One) views of this thread??? )    

Rob, every time there's a concert in Dublin I plan to go but am too lazy to queue and NEVER made it to see them at home. In 1992 (yikes that's ages ago) I was in Nantes for a year and U2 came to play in Nantes. The day the tickets went on sale I happened to be in town chatting to a friend and the  subject came up. I was disgusted I had forgotten it was THE day and, looking at my watch, said "oh it's already 3pm, tickets went on sale at 9am, it's too late" but my French friend persuaded me to go and try. Up we went to the local record store but there was no queue in sight "Je t'ai dit!" I exclaimed, proud of my familiarity with U2 concerts. But she persuaded me to go into the shop and up we went to the ticket desk. "Two tickets for U2 please" in our most optimistic voices, and she took out a wad of tickets and calmly tore 2 off the top. Oops! They were wonderful that year in Nantes! Still have to see them in Dublin sometime, but I hear last week (?) they were sold out in 40 mins.....

ahhhmmmmm kids follow trends.... the trend is obviously not to look like their mammies dressed them....

Hi Lou, Afraid I know nothing about the school you mentioned but I'm not too far from Pau (in the Gers) and also have children 4 and 2 (and 5 months) and moved here last year. We opted for the local school and so far it has been wonderful. The children are still very quiet as regards speaking French around us, but as soon as they see their friends they blabber away in a distinctly southern accent. I find the maternelle really good and the teachers are excellent. They were very welcoming and found it completely normal to take in a young Irish/French family, no questions asked. Our primaire and college are all in the same street as the maternelle and I see the bigger kids who look happy with their lot. Good luck with the move,Pau is so beautiful especially now with the snow capped mountains all around.

Thanks MWJ, might just get one of those ordered now. Love getting a recommendation instead of trying to wade through so many unknown authors trying to decide. Am reading "Une vie francaise" by  Jean-Paul Dubois at the moment but finding it hard going. Marcel Pagnol is my level but it's time to move on methinks!!!

Hi MWJ, Just wondering if you can recommend any of his books to start on - I looked up on amazon but there are quite a few... thanks!

Poor thing! Mine are too young too to offer any advice, but I feel for him. I'm sure the move from primary to college must be very hard. Do you know any of the other parents to ask them how their kids are coping?

In the same week that my 4 year old told me my French is "not really good", she also imitated my Parisian husband's pronunciation and the 2 kids (4 and 2) had a giggle. Obviously they prefer the familiar "peng" and "ceenq" of the SW to his beautiful "pain" "cinq". Remember even the French will cop a strange accent, and note it as a reference ("oh a Parisian in our midst") rather than scoff at it. We assume they scoff at foreigners but I don't think so really. It's like hearing a Scot or Irish or American accent - you can't help but take note, make some assumptions perhaps, but you would never tell an Irishman that it's wrong to say "I'm after doing that" (or if you do, good luck to ya!). There are loads of French accents if you count all the DOM TOM, Canadian etc. so it's fairly common to hear "other" accents. Now my 4-year old insists I do the following: (apologies in advance) ;(

"the French are basically a morose people" - No wonder they're protesting in Brittany against the Brits with attitudes like that. Marcel Pagnol recites a delightful account of school life in several of his novels, which, although hard, gave a great sense of camaraderie and he turned out alright ...  

Oh the yummy mummies, now that's another thread!

Unfortunately we were in an accident only 2 weeks after arriving in France and I still can't believe how it happened. Lovely day. Long straight road. Speed not excessive. Except I slowed to wait to overtake a cyclist and the motorist behind didn't see me slowing down (very gradually) and went straight into us, and we into the cyclist. Never so shocked as I'd never been in an accident before. Nobody hurt badly, though I did have a bit of a fright being 6 months pregnant. Since then I'm very critical of driving and see unnecessary risks everywhere. Why oh why can't they keep their distance?

In France they learn by heart, but don't learn to think. How the hell did they produce such great men and women throughout the ages, great companies, great fashion, great chefs etc. etc. etc. In the UK you learn to think for yourselves, I've seen it written many times. So why do most of you here want to buy a barn, renovate and run a gite in France as the TV told you to?

What a bad picture you all paint! I'm sure you all have had bad experiences, or heard some things second hand, and you use these to compare what would have been had you stayed in the UK. I agree that the French system is not perfect. My OH is French and he has many criticisms too, but his level of general education is superb. For someone who specialised in math/science for his bac he has also a great knowledge of literature, language etc. and some knowledge of philosophy etc... Many people are considering the move to France and read this forum, like the truth the whole truth and nothing but... I think you all want to encourage people to seriously consider education before moving to France, that's fine, but from reading the above the message seems to be "don't move with young children". Before I came her I read threads such as this and suddenly feared my children would sit for 1 year in silence, unable to speak French. 5 months into their first year at maternelle and they LOVE IT and BEG me to be allowed to stay in the after school club. Their French is coming on very well. Everybody's experience is different. Be aware that education in France is not PERFECT. THen stop comparing it to the UK. Be positive about what they are taught here. I for one think the "joined-up writing" is something that I missed out on in Ireland as it was no longer taught in the 70s in Ireland. My hand-writing is apalling. I hope my children will learn to write like their father. Children who receive negative messages from their parents will certainly rebel against the system.

When coming up along the med coast there's a beautiful island called Porquerolles (not too far from Hyeres/Toulon, I think, but you'll have to look it up). I found this a great escape from the busy coastal towns and from the traffic - there are no cars on the island, so you can rent bikes and cycle around it in about 2 hours I'd say (it took us all day as we had a baby in a trailer behind the bike!!). The boat across takes about 45 mins (again, it's been a few years so you'd better check that). Other than that the Gorges de Verdun, somewhere close to there.... ( my geography is crap!), you may have heard of them, the Grand Canyon of Europe, are breathtaking and don't seem to be well known. A fabulous drive.

Hard to generalise but I do feel French people have a good attitude to food and attitude counts. I knew when I had a child that the best way to encourage good eating habits was to adopt them myself (I only dig into the biscuits when she goes to bed, I know, I know she will find out). So I started to drink water, cook and eat loads of veg, and, the hardest for me, force myself to peel fruit - once it's peeled I love it. I think the French appreciate food, talk about it as they eat, buy local produce, buy seasonal specialities etc. etc. and I find when I do this too I'm much more likely to eat well - and stay thin (well thinnish!!:hehe