Boiling a frog

Sorry but your logic has now failed me,,the EU have ruled that this is an exportable benefit, and that the UK must pay it to everyone in the EU who would have been entitled if they had remained in the UK. Seems perfectly sensible to me. Just like UK driving licences remain valid in the EU, DLA Unemployment benefit and several other benefits are exportable . It is a lot colder in my part of France than it ever was where I came from in the UK and I have been in Spain in January ,in fact I was snowed in last year for several day and in April I was shocked when I woke up to snow falling . So apart from the Canaries it is cold in Spain during the winter as well, so that argument, which is irrelevant anyway is out the window.

I believe it is a correct decision ,just as the decision re exportability of attendance allowance? Some parts of the UK are a lot warmer than other parts

Idun said NOW, UK pensioners who move to France, do not pay any NI contributions on their pensions in order to get an S1(E121), the UK government simply pay up.. Not quite correct if one has not paid the required number of NI stamps one will not be entitled to an OAP pension and therefore an S1. But why compare apples with pears, the two systems are not the same, you moved to France you cannot expect the same systems in place as in the UK ,you have already said that.Likewise back in the UK you cannot expect the same system as France ,so why huge long posts about the French system , it is irrelevant, the UK pays WFA which the EU have now decided we ,in France are entitled too, end of . Disingenious ,perhaps I used the wrong word, perhaps obfuscation is the word I was looking for, my humble apologies. However it is all getting boring, this thread was about a change in the rules, not whether these rules are right or wrong, whether the French system is better than the UK system etcetcetc. . I have said my piece, given the information, I am not forcing anyone to apply for the payment and I certainly did not expect insults from someone who deliberately took the wrong meaning from something which to most people was an obvious idiom and then an extension of that idiom.

[quote user="Russethouse"]BAF:if I remember correctly Idun gets her healthcare via the French government,[/quote] That is perfectly normal. if one has worked in an EU country and in receipt of a pension from that country then it is that country which funds the health care for the person ,even if they move to another EU country ,so why the big mystery. She surely does not expect the UK to pay for her health care when their is a system in place called an S1 so that France pays for her health care. So on the one hand we have someone who has stated that the country of residence should be the governing criteria as to what benefits are received, but on the other hand is in receipt of a benefit from a country where she no longer resides. Strange.

[quote user="idun"]Cherry pick moi? Most things in life are cherry picked. And we, well, the good old NHS, free to all permanent residents........ apart from us. So a bit of cherry picking that goverments do and I have nothing to do with at all. Re National Insurance, well I have yet to read where it does not say that it goes towards the NHS, which as far as I was aware is health care. I realise that taxes also go towards the NHS. [/quote] I suspect that you are either cherry picking or being disingenuous. If you are a UK citizen and return to the UK to live permanently then your health care is covered by the NHS. Obviously if you are not a UK citizen ,and/or have not lived in the UK for most of ones life and/or arrive in the UK with a medical condition requiring immediate treatment and or have no proof of a permanant address then, quite rightly one will be treated as a health tourist and will be asked for further proofs of eligibility. I take it you would also ban French residents(but UK citizens who have retired) from obtaining an S1 from the UK and make them pay into the French system

[quote user="Russethouse"]One hopes your understanding of all the rules and regs you have been quoting are better than your observational skills here: Idun is a female :-) :-):-)[/quote] That explains everything, it make sense now.

It seems that Idun wants to cherry pick the EU legislation ,only agreeing with certain bits, such as those from which he benefits(freedom of movement, freedom to work in another EU country,) while disagreeing with other parts. As far as Social Security is concerned The four main principles You are covered by the legislation of one country at a time so you only pay contributions in one country. The decision on which country's legislation applies to you will be made by the social security institutions. You cannot choose. You have the same rights and obligations as the nationals of the country where you are covered. This is known as the principle of equal treatment or non-discrimination. When you claim a benefit, your previous periods of insurance, work or residence in other countries are taken into account if necessary. If you are entitled to a cash benefit from one country, you may generally receive it even if you are living in a different country. This is known as the principle of exportability. I wonder what parts Idun agrees with and which he does not. Obviously he does not agree with the principal of exportability ,or is it only in respect of WFA and not such things as invalidity benefit, unemployment benefit etcetc.

[quote user="idun"]Which french word to you use when you want to get past someone in a crowd, or a supermarket etc. Very curious, I know what I would say, but heard someone saying something I would not say yesterday, and they kept saying it. [/quote] Excuse me, do you mind moving your bahookie

The Service Public website seems to suggest otherwise,. That you are entitled to French AAH but it is means tested and is dependant on your level of disability. http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/particuliers/N12230.xhtml

I see posts like that every day ,it is called humour. I do not quite see the relevance with your mention of help for heroes. People are free to do whatever they like with the payment, whether spending it on fuel, booze ,fags, or even on the horses. or indeed giving it to a man in the street or flushing it down the toilet. As I am not being insulting you would be hard pushed to take any sort of action and as I am not referring to French fonciaires I think you will find it is not illegal anyway. PS website has been changed again with an update making it slightly clearer.

There are many different types of horses and even many different stables. One needs to identify the stable, prior to the door being bolted and then the correct horse. There is no point in asking an old nag to perform like a young filly. I have ,on several occasions now ,been successful in identifying the correct stable where the young fillies are, and they have answered my questions to my complete satisfaction : ie Am I now entitled to claim for WFA being born before 1951 but living in France but previously resided in the UK until 2000 at which point I was not of an age to receive WFA.plus several supplementary questions on backdating payments, claim form etcetcetc. I have always received a positive response. Perhaps you need to seek out the correct stable were the fillies are kept and ask them the question. You may be amazed by the answer. On the other hand just believe the answer given by your horse because that will speed the process up for the rest of us

Take them to your local dechetterie http://www.vidangefacile.com/fr/content/30-liste-des-dechetteries-en-basse-normandie

I believe the point is that I gave correct information (not the information on the website) but you continue to insist that I am wrong. So be it ,but I am the one who has spoken with the horse. For the last time If one left the UK for an EU country prior to becoming entitled to the WFA one can now ,due to an EU ruling be entitled to the allowance. . The cut off date is 1998. If one left the UK prior to that date one is not entitled to the allowance. Be a pedant if you wish but I am not going to keep repeating myself. Over and out.

Get over it Norman, you were wrong.I did not give a link to the wrong form I gave a link to a form which the UK Govt had published . You said As I posted above those who moved to France before becoming eligible for WFA will still not be eligible. That is rubbish

Returning to the subject and as a point of information The Direct Govt website stated that the claim form will be available from August or can be downloaded,giving a link to the claim form. The claim form on this link is in fact not the correct claim form as the claim form relevant to those of us who are now able to claim, due to the UK Government having acted illegally in the past by denying us the allowance, js still in the process of being constructed but should be available in a few weeks time. One can however use the existing form on the link but ignore the bits about claiming on Pg 5 of the form

Returning to the subject and as a point of information The Direct Govt website stated that the claim form will be available from August or can be downloaded,giving a link to the claim form. The claim form on this link is in fact not the correct claim form as the claim form relevant to those of us who are now able to claim, due to the UK Government having acted illegally in the past by denying us the allowance, js still in the process of being constructed but should be available in a few weeks time. One can however use the existing form on the link but ignore the bits about claiming on Pg 5 of the form

The PM has just announced that there will be no change to the rules re WFA so that theory of yours is out the window. You seem to have neatly sidestepped the real issue, that it is illegal to deny the WFA to everyone

The arguement is not I have paid so I am entitled. The UK Government were found by the European Court to have been acting illegally ie against the law, by refusing the Winter fuel Allowance to people who had left the UK prior to them being entitled to the benefit. The UK Government are not acting illegally in making people pay ,via means testing, for care homes. It may not be just and fair but it is not illegal so we are not comparing two similar situations. I presume that you are not suggesting that the Govt should be allowed to act illegally.

Depends what you need ,light use, heavy use, emergency only, internet access .

The very helpful lady at the pensions service has acknowledged that both the website and the claim forms are ambiguous but it is a fluid situation with new/different directives being distributed all the time. For NormanH As I have repeated. If one left the UK prior to 1998 and were not in receipt of WFP at that point in time then one cannot claim . If one left the UK after 1998 ,were not in receipt of WFP when one left but have since become eligible then one is entitled(straight from the horses mouth)

[quote user="Russethouse"]Have you actually looked at the link? Believe me I'm not making it up - you may get your £200 per household but please don't lead others to believe its automatic because at this stage the web site is not that clear.[/quote] Who said anything about it being automatic. One has to put in a claim using the form ,which I gave a link too. I cannot think of a single instance on Government websites where it says that "one is entitled", ,it always says "one may be entitled". It is obvious to me that the website update has been a hurry up job but, as I have already said, if one telephones the Pensions service then one gets the true facts straight from the horses mouth. Putting it simply, if you live in the EU(including the UK) or Switzerland and are over the qualifying age and would be entitled to the payment if you lived in the UK then you are entitled. There is one sure and certain thing. If you live outside of the UK but live in the EU or Switzerland and do not receive WFA at the moment you will still not receive it unless you put in a claim. I do not understand the reluctance to accept these facts or do people revel in being pedants or Victor Meldrews.

I have confirmed that people who previously were denied WHA payments because they were not in receipt of them before leaving the UK are now entitled, With a cut off date of 1998 . . If one left the UK prior to that date one is not entitled to WHA. If people do not care to believe then so be it, I will receive my £100 as will my wife, back dated as well .

[quote user="NormanH"]As I posted above those who moved to France before becoming eligible for WFA will still not be eligible. That is the point of the 1998 date, as since the WFA dates from then those who were here before could not be eligible before moving over. This is made very clear in Part 3 of the claim form. [/quote] Rubbish Only those who moved before 1998 are not eligible

If you live in an EEA country or Switzerland and do not get the Winter Fuel Payment then you need to make a claim. A claim form will be available from August from the International Pension Centre or you can download it from the following link. http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/@over50/documents/digitalasset/dg_180315.pdf Having contacted the Pensions Service today I am assured that I am entitled to WFA despite having moved to France before becoming eligible under the old rules. .

Website now updated http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Pensionsandretirementplanning/Benefits/BenefitsInRetirement/DG_198331