lyndros

Thankyou for your reply on this particular point. The only relevant box I can find on Form 2042C is 8TA on the last page. ('Revenu à la source en France.....ou impot payé à l'étranger'). Is this where I put the 11,2% tax credit?.

Here is a written response that I have now had from the Vannes tax office, which settles the matter of how a "Government Pension" should be declared on Forms 2042 and 2047 (at least in Vannes!!!!). Monsieur, Suite à votre passage dans nos bureaux concernant les modalités de la déclaration des revenus au titre de l'année 2011, je vous  prie de trouver ci dessous,  les informations nécessaires pour  retranscrire  vos pensions émanant du royaume uni . 1) Sur la déclaration des revenus 2042,  vous devez porter  cadre I en ligne 1AS le montant total  de  vos retraites  et au cadre 8 en ligne 8TK le montant imposable de la retraite de fonctionnaire, le cas échéant, 2) Sur la déclaration rose 2047, vous devez porter cadre I la totalité de vos pensions  et,  le  cas échéant,  la retraite de fonctionnaire au cadre VI de cette même déclaration . I hope that this helps everybody.  

I have a small amount of dividends and interest to declare in the Declaration Des Revenus this year. As I assume these are not exonerated from social charges, I think that some figures will have to go into Part VIII of Form 2047. But there are seperate boxes in this Section (1 for CRDS and 4 for CSG). Any advice on what do I put and where?. Thankyou

Received your pm. Thankyou for your help

Thanks. Are you able to say which tax office dealt with your claim?

Thanks for your reply. Just to confuse matters further, my tax office in Vannes also verbally informed me that I should put my pension income in Box 8TL of Form 2047, even though it consists of a Govt Pension ( exempt from social charges by the Double Taxation Treaty) and Private Pensions ( exempt from social charges because I have a Form S1)!!!!. Any further thoughts or advice fro you or anyone else?

Parsnips - thank you for your reply Norman - When you did it last year using the old method (Section VII and  8TI) , did you also put both private and government pension on Page 1 Form 2047 Pensions Retraites, Rentes?. Also, does a figure in 8TI automatically trigger a social charge contribution? I went to the Tax Office this afternoon (Vannes). They did not seem to be very sure of the situation, but in the end they said that only Private Pensions go into Section 1 Form 2047. They also said that the Government Penion should be entered into Section VII Form 2047, and the sum then transferred to 8TI Form 2042. I said that they were not correct, so they are going to check the position again and then email me. I must say that I am not waiting with any confidence that they will get the advice correct.!!!!

Would someone tell me please whether I am correct in doing the following, as advice on the Internet so far is either ambigous or contraditory: Private Pensions and Incapacity Benefit (1) Grouped together in one global sum in Form 2047 Page 1 “Pensions Retraites, Rentes –Total Des Pensions Et Avantages Et Nature”  GROSS (State Pensions also go here but NOT Government Pensions) (2) The same GROSS figure is then put into Form 2042 Page 3 Box  “1AS- Pensions, Retraites, Rentes” (3) I am on a Form S1(E121), so the Private Pensions and Incapacity Benefit are exonerated from the social charges. I will make reference to this on Form 2042 Page 2 Section E Section E I  “Renseignemnts Complémentaires”, and attach a copy of my Form S1 to my Tax Declaration. Government Pension (Local Government)(4) Enter into Form 2047 Page 4 “Revenus Impoables De Source Etranger Ouvrant A Un Credit D’Impot Egal Au Montant De L’Impoy Français Correspondant A Ces Revenu”  GROSS  No separate figure is given of the UK tax paid on this Pension, as this is not relevant to the French Tax Authorities in working out the eventual French Tax Credit on this Pension for the purposes of the Double Tax Treaty. (5) The same GROSS figure is put into Form 2042 Page 4  Box “8TK – Revenus étrangers imposables en France, ouvrant droit à un crédit d’impot ègal au montant de l’impôt français (6) The Government Pension is exonerated from social charges by virtue of the Double Tax Treaty itself. But am I safe in assuming that by putting in a figure in Box 8TK of Form 2042,  this will NOT attract an automatic liability to these social charges?. Your views would be most welcome. Thanks    

Thanks. Some clarification though please on the question of UK dividends. It is suggested elsewhere that these should be declared in Form 2047 Page 2 Section IV (2A) ("Dividends éligibles à l'abattement de 40%"), rather than Section 2B. What do you think -  it seems logical, as Section 2A refers to "Dividends" while Section (2B) refers to , inter alia, "Interéts". Whatever Section applies (1) Do I put into the relevant Column 2 or 5 the amount of Dividend actually paid to me, or do I also add the UK Tax Credit? (2) Do I need to declare the Dividends on Form 2042C, or does this just relate to French Dividends. Lastly, where would you put Premium Bond winnings on Form 2047 - on Page 2 Section IV (1) Box GO (as is suggested elsewhere), or Page 2 Section IV (2B) Regards Lyndros

Am I correct in thinking that interest on UK Bank Accounts and UK Dividends are subject to these charges, irrespective of whether there is a Form S1?

I don't quite understand why you say that those with a Form S1 can ignore Section VIII, as the title to that Section includes the word "Imposables". Because this word "Imposables" is used, does this not mean that this Section is therefore wanting details of foreign income NOT taxable to CSG and CRDS (i.e. where there is a Form S1). However, my understanding of the French language or the french way of thinking is not very good. Please could you clarify. Regards Lyndros

I am doing my first Declaration Des Revenue this year (2012) in respect of my income for that part of 2011 from when I became resident in France. Part of my income during that period includes Bank Interest from my UK Bank Accounts.(in respect of which I have already paid 20% UK Tax) . So my questions are: (a) Do I declare this (as a global sum) on Form 2047 Page 2 Part IV 2 B - "Autres reveus de valeurs mobiliéres et evenus assimilés", under the Section entitled "Interés". - I have no other income relevant to the other Sections of this part (b) In Column 5 thereof, should I put in a gross sum (thereby including the UK tax I will have paid ), or a net sum. The advice on the internet seems to vary, and the Form itself says "Montant Net Encaisse en Euros". If I put the gross sum in, can I assume that the only way to avoid double taxation is to later reclaim my UK Tax back from HMRC (which means doing this every year, as not all my banks use the Form R105 procedure). (c) Whatever sum I put in (whether gross or net) should I then also put 11.2% into Column 6  (being the relevant percentage for the UK stated by the Form) and then do a calculation (multplying Column 5 by Column 6) and put in the resulting figure in Column 7 for the "Credit Impot". If YES, what function does this "Credit Impot" serve, as if it is intended to compensate me for the 20% UK Tax that I have already paid, then it doesn't. If NO, can I assume that I just leave Columns 6 and 7 blank. (d) I assume that the Column 5 sum gets transferred to TS at the bottom of the page, but is TA also relevant (my French is not that good). (e) At the bottom of the page it states "Chacun Des Montants TS.......Est A Reporter Sur La Declation Des Revenus". Can I assume that the TS figure goes into Form 2042 Page 3 Section 2 Box 2TS . Also, what does "8 Ligne TA" refer to at the bottom of the Form 2047 page?. I will need to declare my bank accounts on Form 3916. Bearing in mind that I came to live in France part of the way through 2011, should I include accounts that were open but then closed before I arrived.  Lastly, I understand that there is a Form 2042C for investment income which has suffered tax deduction at source. Does this cover my UK Bank Accounts, or is this only relevant to French investments (including French Bank Accounts). I would be grateful for any help that members can give. Lyndros

Hello, I have three questions relating to French Inheritance Rights and Tax.. They are very relevant to our modern times, as fewer and fewer people are getting married. All the questions relate to a PACS couple who want to buy a French house together. They are both resident in France, and both have adult children of previous marraiges and these children are living away. The couple have no property now in the UK. (1) Will a tontine clause in the Acte de Vente (in favour of the surviving Partner) disenfranchise the house from the children of the first partner to die. And when the surving partner afterwards dies, is it only the children of that surviving partner who inherit the house, so that the children of the first partner to die again get no share of the house. (2) Instead of a tontine clause, can the survivor be granted the right to live in the property after the death of the first partner. If so, should  this clause be included in the Acte de Vente, or should it be done seperatley by a Will. Also if so, how and when do you actually value the share of the children of the first partner to die- are they granted a reversionary interest to be valued on the death of the second partner, and does that reversionary interest take priority over the share of the children of the second partner to die. (3) There is an abatement relating to a principal residence. Is this 20% or 30% for PACS couples. As PACS couples are exempt from french inheritance tax anyway, in what circumstances can this abatement be relevant. Can a child of the deceased take advantage of this abatement, even though not living in the house. Has anyone got any answers? Regards Lyndros

Thankyou 5 Element. The highlighting of the sentence was not intended - just an accident with my mouse.. In light of what you say, am I right in thinking that just after the dates mentioned in my previous post, I should go into a chemist to update my card (providing of course that my IB is continuing)? Lyndros

No, it is not intended to be a wind up. France has obligations to EU Citizens, just like every other EU country. Those obligations include providing health care in certain circumstances (e.g. where a Form S1(E121 or E106)  is in operation), and  those circumstances are NOT dependant on contributions paid in France. I just want to be sure that France is complying with and administering its obligations properly. Lyndros