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[quote user="Lou"]I don't think it matters where you are resident when you fill in the tax return, what matters is where you were resident during the relevant period i.e during 2012. Lou [/quote] Thanks Lou, that clarifies the situation.

[quote user="Boiling a frog"]Would you not have to submit a tax return for 2012 in May 2013 thereby receiving your credit.[/quote] Thats what I was wondering Boiling s Frog..is it allowed to submit a tax return in 2013 for the credit d`impot due for 2012 when I would no longer be resident in France?

That was lucky NormanH, I rather suspect that the F and H tax will happily be collected for 2012, yet I doubt the 2012 credit d`impot won`t be dished out so quick, or at all!

As per previous posts on this forum, I have received an offer for the house, my primary residence, and hopefully all will proceed ok up to and including the final sale date which I hope will be late December. Now, I know the role of the Notaire is to collect all taxes due, and in my case, before I leave the country to return to the UK. By late December I will have paid all my Fonciere and habitation taxes for 2012. If I was still resident on 1st January, I would be liable for Fonciere and habitation taxes for 2013, which the Notaire would be keen to collect. (ie in the event that the final sale date creeps into January) What then happens to the 2012 credit d`impot (I dont pay any tax on income due to Double Treaty) which I have received in the past for mortgage interest on my primary residence. Is it the case that because I would not be resident when the tax returns are due, that I would not receive my credit d`impot for mortgage interest accrued during 2012? Would the Notaire arrange a tax refund before I go, or would I have to submit a tax return in 2013 for 2012 mortgage interest, even though I am no longer a resident...or do I lose it? How does this work?..or does it?

[quote user="sid"] Stan, The purpose of the bon de visite has been explained by PD de R. You can't have it both ways, which is what you seem to want. [/quote] Sid, I fully understand the the purpose of the bon de visite, that is not my query. Also I do not want it both ways as you quite wrongly seem to assume. [quote user="sid"] If agent A did all the groundwork initially for your prospective vendor, and then agent B claims to make the sale, it does seem unfair. [/quote] Sid, Agent A did no groundwork for the prospective vendor, yes, they did visit with the 1st estate agent, nothing more. The house was advertised by both estate agents at the same time, and the prospective buyer then, as I have said, visited again some months later with estate agent 2, who showed them the property yet again. The prospective buyer has now made an offer, all fees included, via estate agent 2. Yes, I now realise, subject to certain cases highlighted in a previous post by Pickles that nothing seems to be set in stone as regards the agents commission in these cases, however I have no wish to be part of any debacle, legal proceedings or otherwise, but simply wish to sell my house. I will, as you say Sid, check the terms of my contract with the first estate agent in anticipation of my forthcoming conversation with estate agent 2 tomorrow morning.

[quote user="Pickles"]Having had a quick look on some French-language forums, there are some cases (eg: http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichJuriJudi.do?oldAction=rechJuriJudi&idTexte=JURITEXT000007507705&fastReqId=1561879128&fastPos=2) where it has been held that only the agency through which the deal is finally brought to a conclusion gets the commission. However, there appear to be other cases - to which I do not have links - in which the first agent was awarded the commission. (I also came across this and this) Some of this may come down to the wording of the "bon de visite" - in some cases the potential buyer has signed a "bon de visite" in which he states that he will not purchase either direct or via another intermediary. In other cases, the fact that the 1st agency had no hand in negotiating a lower sale price was seen as being material. What it seems to come down to is: going to law to prove a case is time-consuming and expensive, and may not work out the way you hoped. In a similar case, a notaire tried to get the 2nd agency to sign an agreement to cover the costs in the event of a problem with the first agency. Another approach suggested was to get the two agencies to come to an agreement on sharing the commission, on the basis that this would be better than engaging in legal action. [/quote] Thanks for all, that Pickles. I have sent an email to the estate agent who has negotiated the offer stating that I cannot see how he can now sell my property without incurring some legal action on the part of the first estate agent, and that I certainly would not make myself liable to any costs, or delay in selling the property as a result of this. Being Sunday today, I will await his call on Monday and update this post. Thanks to all who contributed, it certainly is a mine field out there, this French property business!

Another point, as estate agent 2 knew that the prospective buyer had visited the property previously, can he be reported to some govermenet/professional body for knowingly instigating and encouraging an illegal transaction which could have financially disadvantaged the vendor (ie me) through no fault of his own.

I do not see how that can be enforced. What happens if the vendor has no idea that the prospective buyer has viewed with a previous agent with whom they have signed a bon de visite, ie the vendor is in UK and the estate agents have the keys. Surely it is the responsibility of the second estate agent, in the knowledge that a prospective buyer has viewed the same property with a previous agent, and then again, why would the second estate agent want to be involved in this activity in the knowledge that it would end up a court case.

SORRY FOLKS<, my grave error. I meant the diagnostic report for the house, of which the DPE is only part. basically a prospective buyer has made an offer for the house without seeing a copy of the diagnostic report which is dated 2009. As previously said I have made a few minor electrical alterations. Should I have to get an updated diagnostic report asap as the estate agent says he can draw up the Compromis de vente imminently.

[quote user="Pommier"]I would have said that once you've signed a Bon de Visite and viewed a house with an agent, you can only buy through that agent (unless you wait for the mandate to expire). On another forum someone has recently been taken to court after buying privately following a viewing with an agent. A costly thing to do! [/quote] Thanks Pommier, but is there a definite answer to this? Do I as the Vendor, then have to wait for the mandate from Estate Agent 1 to expire before the prospective buyer can buy from Estate Agent 2? Possibly I am confusing the issue here. My house is for sale with several estate agents. Propective buyer viewed the house several months ago with Estate agent 1 but nothing proceeded. Recently the same prospective buyer viewed the house with Estate Agent 2 and thereafter made an offer. Estate agent 1 says that the prospective buyer cannot make an offer as they had previously viewed the property with Estate agent 1. Now I am wondering if I can even accept the offer from the prospective buyer as Estate Agent 1, after finding out, were none too pleased. Estate agent 2 has said nothing and is aware that the prospective buyer has already viewed the property with Estate Agent 1. My worry is that Estate agent 1 can put the brakes on the sale should I accept the offer.

[quote user="P-D de Rouffignac"]The system is relatively uncomplicated. A vendor can sign one or more non-exclusive mandates with several agencies, who may charge different rates of commisssion (the rate is clearly expressed in the mandate). It is basically an agreement between the vendor and the agent under which the vendor asks the agent to try and sell his/her property, in return for an agreed commission payable to the agent. If the agent succeeds in finding a buyer for the property (and a transaction results), then the agent has fulfilled his part of the contract and the vendor becomes responsible to the agent for the latter's commission. The 'bon de visite' is just one of the pieces of evidence that might be produced in case of dispute, showing when the buyer was introduced to the property/vendor by that agent. French law and jurisprudence are unequivocal in enforcing the agent's right to his/her commission. The buyer's actions, of the sort you describe, are largely irrelevant: the contract is between the vendor and the agent. Sales mandates can be cancelled, normally after three months - for example, in the vendor withdraws the property from the market. But many include a clause entitling the agent to commission if a buyer first tinroduced by the agency returns with 24 months and a sale is completed by him/her. Once again, the law is quite clear on this. [/quote] So basically the prospective buyer has done nothing wrong by viewing and making an offer for a property using another estate agent who has the same property on their books.

Thanks Pickles, it was just that I wondering whether I now had to go and arrange a DPE as the Compromis is being drawn up on Monday. The original DPE that I have is slightly different from the current "status" of the house, in that one extra curcuit for an electric cooker, and a 30 foot extension to one electric lighting circuit. It seems daft to pay all that money for a full DPE to simply reflect these small changes, given the fact that the buyer has already made an offer.

Yes that was my understanding of the "bon de visite", however, if a buyer goes to another estate agent, who then shows them around the property again, and they subsequently buy the property, then I do not see why commission has to be paid to the first estate agent, surely such a law would prevent fair competition between estate agents who have the same property on their books. Or, as a scenario, what would happen if the prosepctive buyer really liked the property, but subsequently fell out with, or did not like the estate agent, or found a competitive "fee" rate elsewhere, surely then the prospective buyer would not effectively be barred for life for buying that property (via another estate agent) elsewhere?

My understanding of the "bon de visite" is that it makes it "unlawful" for a prospective buyer to go behind the back of the estate againt and deal with the vendor directly BUT does it preclude the prospective buyer from buying the same property from another estate agent?

So is the DPE "for information only" as per DERF`s post.....or is it a necessary part of Compromis as per POMMMIER`s post?

[quote user="idun"]Your notaire should be able to tell you exactly what is needed and if anything needs doing again. In fact the agent immobilier should too.[/quote] Thank you for taking the time to reply idun, and I appreciate that both the Notaire and estate agent will keep me right, however my question is whether a DPE is necessary for the Notaire process. I would intend to obtain an updated DPE before this sale went anywhere near a Notaire, so I`m just trying to save a bit of time.

Over 2 years ago when we bought our house here in France, the DPE (which was already 2 years old), along with the Compromis de Vente, were all included in the forms which had to be signed during the "buying" day meeting at the Notaires with the selling party. Due to unforseen circumstances, the house has been up for sale for year now, and via 2 out of the 5 estate agents (ie, those who asked for it) who are marketing the property, the DPE was provided to prospective buyers to comply with the property marketing laws and whilst further ongoing renovation work was carried out. We now have a prospective buyer who has made an offer, but I have not had an updated DPE done. My understanding is that the DPE is for the info of prospective buyers in order for them to make an informed decision and quite rightly so. However will I now have to obtain an updated DPE in order for the buying process with the Notaire to proceed?..or is a new DPE unneccesary, given the fact that the prospective buyers have already decided to buy by making an offer. The thing is, I doubt that the prospective buyers have not seen a copy of the old DPE in this case.

Thanks to all who replied. I contacted my broker and he confirmed that any transaction for that amount would be as competitively near to the "live" market rate as possible, and certainly better than the usual rate given to the smaller monthly transactions. This is the same for the other brokerage companies I have used, so it is simply a matter of getting a competitive quote on the day. As for money laundering etc, all these companies already have all my IDs etc, so it is simply as straightfoward as having the Notaire transfer the funds to the bank on the day (which he will), then having them transfer the amount to the broker at the negociated rate.

[quote user="Quillan"]I guess it depends on where the actual change from Euros to Sterling takes place i.e. France or the UK. You might find that you can do a deal with your UK bank on the exchange rate (rather than accept the advertised day rate) then simply do a bank to bank transfer in Euros and let your UK bank convert it. I have done this before in both directions and have on occasion saved a lot of money. Your the man with the money and a lot of it which can work to your advantage when moving it. I forgot to add that the transfer fee will be a fixed amount, last time I did it was from BNP and it cost about €5.70 for €30k. [/quote] Thanks Quillan, but in my experience, I have never used banks to convert and transfer euros, always a UKcurrency broker..they have always given me the best deal, way better than any bank. As for the transfer fee, maybe I made myself misunderstood. I dont pay any transfer fee either with my currency transactions, what I meant was the commission fee charged by brokers to make the transaction, ie the difference between the "live" market rate and the rate they convert.

A question for anyone who has recently sold their French property and transferred the proceeds back to sterling from euros. I transfer all my monthly income from the UK to my French bank using a currency broker. Now, I may have a buyer for my property here in France and was enquiring as to whether the brokerage fee for transferring back from euros to sterling is negotiable for a large amount of say, €200K, or whether the standard 2ish% commission fee is always applied, ie at present rates, the commission fee on this amount of transfer would be in the region of £2.5K, a lot for the press of a button, requiring the same effort as my monthly brokerage fee of about £40 ! Any advice appreciated.

Just a quick question....we are thinking of adopting a dog from a shelter, however we are also planning on returning to the UK once our house is sold. Do French adoption contracts forbid the removal of an "adopted" animal from France to the UK.

[quote user="Quillan"]I read this to mean that you can't make the pipes yourself nor can you fill them yourself. You can however buy pre filled pipes and connect them yourself. The rest is really advice on fixing and in particular the outside units but you can of course fit them yourself. I guess they are suggesting you get the chap to do it in case they fall off and injure somebody. No mention I might add about electricity supply.[/quote] Thnaks again Quillan, this gets better very time you reply! I will definitely go down the pre-filled pipe and plug route and save my self a few euros. The external units would be above the garden, so unlikely to injure anyone in the unlikely event that they fall down !

Another point re electrical circuitry I found in one of the brochures for a ZIBRO climatiseur was that apparently since 4th July 2009, the law states that any installation involving liquid refrigerant, as contained in these systems, has to be undertaken by a certified installer. Now, if these simply come with plugs, what is the point in paying x amount of hundreds of euros (679€ TTC to be exact) to have someone simply screw a bracket on an outside wall to take the external unit, drill a hole in a stone wall, connect a quick fit connector and plug the thing in. My suspicions is that probably thse units now do not come with plugs and so need a dedicated electrical circuit at extra cost on top of the certified installer. I am also wondering if having to engage an installer would result in one of these renewable energy tax credits as I am resident here and this is my primary resience.

[quote user="Quillan"]The best way, keeping it simple, is to say that if the heater comes with a plug then you can plug it in to a socket (these tend to be mobile units). If it does not come with a plug you need a dedicated circuit (these tend to come as 'bolt to the wall' units). These regs have been round a while. Our house was built in 83 and all the electrical heaters had their individual breaker. If you are talking about installing 'inverter' clim units individually in rooms mine came with a plug on the end of a cable attached to the inside unit. The inside unit 'powers' the outside unit. If it was a French electrician then it is unlikely he would have asked or suggested, it's up to you to tell him. If its not on the Devis then it won't get done. [/quote] Thanks Quillan, very informative. So, I can simply plug in any "plugged" inverteur units, without having dedicated circuits? That would be ideal as all I would have to do is make one hole for the "frigorifique" pipe. You obviously shopped around for an inverteur. Can I ask if most of them came with a plug?

Can someone advise me of the regulations for wiring electric radiators in France. basically when we purchased our present property there were 2 woodburners for the 2 ground floor rooms, ie living room and kitchen, and plug-in radiators for the 3 bedrooms and bathrooms upstairs. We got rid of the plug-in radiators when we renovated, and I was about to purchase new radiators when I was advised that plug in electric radiators are prohibited in France, and that I would need dedicated electrical circuits for each radiatior I had planned for every room. I would like to install an air/air heat pump "inverteur" type heating system for the winter, and presume they would also require dedicated circuits too. Having completed all the plasterwork, I have no desire to rip apart boarding and re-wire, however if need be, it could be done by running new circuits from the electric meter board, up into a grenier, back outside and around the outside of the building and back in through the stone wall into respective rooms. I would have asked the electrician that assisted me in the renovation this question, but he never mentioned anything about dedicated circuits at the time, and so slightly distrust his capabilities. If anyone can advise re the regs concerning this, I would be obliged.