EuroTrash

Must admit I have only ever had a shop bought one - I expected it to be a nice treat and I was very disappointed. Tasteless, and the sort of consistency that you chew and chew and it's still there in your mouth. However I can well believe that home made ones are very different, otherwise I can't see why they would be so popular.

I see why the OP is keen to make a case for being resident asap, but if he hasn't yet applied to join the French healthcare system and has presumably been using his UK-issued EHIC up to now, then filling in a French tax form for 2018 wouldn't help at this stage . When you're accepted into PUMA you get a document called an attestation de droits, and this states the date when your health cover commenced. The start date can't normally be backdated to a date prior to your application being received (in fact your PUMA cover in France can't overlap with your NHS cover in the UK - before accepting you onto PUMA, CPAM need confirmation from DWP that you are no longer entitled to heathcare under the NHS). So if in fact his health cover was provided by the UK and not by France throughout 2018, which sounds to be the case, then he won't be regarded as having been legally resident in France during 2018, regardless of whether or not he fills in a French tax return this April or not.

Sorry but I don't see it. "The house in France cannot yet become the permanent family home because she continues to have care responsibilities for her elderly Father. " sums it up for me as far as the French side goes - I don't see France regarding him as resident if the family home is in the UK, On the UK side, he appears to have at least 3 "ties" to the UK - 1. UK resident family, 2. accommodation available to him, 3. resident in previous tax years - so for 3 ties, spending anything over 16 days in the UK would make him resident as per the statutory residence test. https://home.kpmg/content/dam/kpmg/pdf/2016/01/statutory-residence-test-flowchart.pdf

Hello and Happy New Year to you too :-) Basically you need to clarify where you "live", and it sounds as if in fact your family home is in the UK even though you spend a lot of time in France as a visitor. France's criteria for residence are: Under French law Unless international tax treaties state otherwise, you are considered to be a resident of France for tax purposes if you fulfil at least one of the following criteria : "Your household (including your spouse, civil partner and/or children) remains in France. This may be the case if you are living temporarily or for most of the year in another country for professional reasons. If you are single without dependants, then your tax residence is defined as where you live most of the time. or You have a professional activity in France, as an employee or otherwise, unless this activity is secondary. or The centre of your economic interests is in France. In other words, France is the location of your main investments, your place of business, the location of your professional activities, or the source of the majority of your income." https://www.impots.gouv.fr/portail/resident-de-france-residents-france#English%20version and from what you've said you don't meet any one of those criteria. Therefore France does not regard you as fiscally resident. The UK's residence criteria are a lot more complicated, you have to count "ties" and how long you've spent where, but I'm pretty sure that HMRC will regard you as tax resident in the UK because you will likely have too many "ties" to be considered a leaver. So, future income from your gites in France should be declared by you to the French tax office as as a non resident; the gite income you earn during 2019 should be declared in April/may 2020. That is how it seems to me at any rate. So I don't actually see any complexity, no need for a tax advisor, just carry on as you are, the only thing is that spending extended periods in France may become trickier after Brexit. Under the EU freedom of movement directive, EU citizens are entitled to stay in another EU country for up to 3 months as visitors, but this isn't monitored so in effect you can stay as long as you like. When we become non EU citizens we'll probably be limited to 90 days in every 180 days in Schengen as visitors, and I guess we'll be clocked in and out just the same as as all other third country nationals.

What's wrong with ALBF's adjective?

My favourite missing apostrophe was on a huge advertisement hoarding on the outskirts of Manchester - I was doing part-time English tutoring at the time and I liked it so much I took a photo and used it with my students. XXX MOTORS - WERE THE BEST GARAGE IN TOWN (but no longer are, presumably...)

Sorry you haven't had more responses Danny, but fittersmate is the best advice - look for a gite that will give you a good long-off-season rate. Or try airbnb. I think the trouble at the moment is that those of us that live here are a bit socia-media'd out, what with trying to keep up with the gilets jaunes protests and Macron's half-assed proposals and all the social unrest and is there going to be another revolution, on the one hand, and Brexit on the other hand and what will happen and how that might affect us and our futures, and it's none of it very cheerful or positive, that we're not our usual happy helpful selves on the forums. But I hope you find somewhere lovely to stay and have a great holiday.

Could you be more specific on your links please CT? "Like the German version" - what versions of what are you referring to exxactly? "the bit that is of interest is on page 2" - page 2 of what, please? And obviously, the skill sets are going to be different country by country. I wasn't aware that France is short of masons, there are plenty round here... What France actually says is: "Les titres de séjour obtenus avant mars 2019 seront-ils toujours valables après l’échéance de mars ? En cas d’accord de retrait entrant en vigueur: Les titres UE obtenus avant mars 2019 (dont la possession n'est pas obligatoire) continueront à être valables durant la période de transition qui court jusqu'au 31 décembre 2020. Ils devront être remplacés en revanche au-delà de cette période par le nouveau titre prévu par l'accord. Les demandes de titre pourront être déposées selon un calendrier qui sera précisé ultérieurement et en tout état de cause au moins jusqu'en juillet 2021 En cas d’absence d’accord de retrait: Les titres de séjour obtenus avant le 30 mars 2019 devront être échangés selon un calendrier qui sera précisé ultérieurement. This is from the French government's own website https://www.interieur.gouv.fr/Actualites/Le-ministere-de-l-Interieur-se-prepare-au-Brexit/Sejour Please note the last sentence and especially the use of the word "échangés".

@ALBF/ A UK business (that you own) then employing yourself in France to work for it ??? I can't get my head around that one." The point is that you are employed by a company. It doesn't matter that it's a UK business and it doesn't matter that you own it. Once you're registered with URSSAF as a French-based employee, to them you are the same as any other employee in France employed by non French business. There are employees here employed on the same basis by US companies, Chinese companies, etc etc etc. Brexit will make no difference. A CDS will become redundant in March with a no deal. So I still can't see the point of getting one. But you all can convince me. No, in March with no deal a carte de séjour will become obligatory rather than optional. Yes, it will look a bit different from the one you get now, but the paperwork you have to provide to get it will be basically the same. So they may be merciful and decide that those who have already proved their right to permanently reside by photocopying vast quantities of documents in order to get the old CDS, don't have to do so again but can simply show their old CDS. After all that is basically the point of a CDS, it doesn't give you any new rights as such, it is simply confirmation of the rights that you have, and arguably, a permanent right is a permanent right. Cathar Tours says they won't do this. I don't know and AFAIK the details haven't been decided yet so nobody does. ALBF, you are the spouse of a French national so you don't have to worry about any of this.

CT, where have you seen that it is a new EU card for expats in every EU country? Has anyone told France this? Because from the minutes of the Assemblée Nationale's discussion on Brexit preparations a couple of weeks ago, France seemed to be intending to make its own decisions on what procedures and timescale to adopt. From what I recall, it did say or at least suggest that Brits who currently hold CDSs will be able to exchange them. The point is, that anyone who has already lived in France for 5 years, has in theory already acquired permanent residence rights. So for instance, if as an inactif if you've lived in France for 6 years with an income above the minimum threshold, and then for instance your tenant leaves and you don't find another and your income is below the threshold, it changes nothing because after 5 years you no longer have to meet any conditions. I would be surprised if there is a decision to retrospectively remove a right that has already been "earned". (With respect, the S1 is a poor example because it's not a condition for legal residence. With or without an S1, you need to meet the minimum income level, Provided you do that, then if you lose your S1 you can join the French healthcare system. You will not need private insurance. So I cannot for the life of me understand why there is so much panic over S1s. OK, if it goes then people will have to pay a small contribution towards their healthcare... just like everyone else in France.)

Good grief what a thing to happen! I hope you got all your furniture back and it wasn't held hostage for too long? Well obviously there would be no legal way to claim ownership of a car that hasn't got your name on the carte grise, there would have to be trust involved. There would also have to be trust by the friend that the OP will pay any traffic fines that are sent to him. So yes, maybe not such a great idea after all if the two parties don't know each other well.

PS I am not so sure the leave date will be extended if it is no deal. The EU is ready, it already has its plans in place, and it wants done with Brexit. It would see no advantage in a delay if there is no deal, and it's not obliged to agree to one.

ALBF, I thought that if you haven't been here for 5 years you are normally issued with a 1-year CDS to start with and you have to go along to renew it each year and prove that you still meet your residency conditions. Then after 5 years residence, you should be entitled to be issued with a "permanent" cds although I'm not sure it is actually permanent, I think it still expires after 5 or 10 years and has to be renewed. But I'm hazy on the details and in any case different prefectures seem to do things differently. The point is that the OP would likely have been unable to move here and carry on working after Brexit because Brits will likely no longer have freedom of movement to come and work or set up a business in France. Just like US/Aus/Indian/etc citizens can't come here and set up a micro entreprise, or take a job that an EU citizen could do. Early retirees and retirees with money to support themselves will still be OK, it is the workers whose options are being closed by losing freedom of movement. Which is why "messing around with French employment contracts" is exactly what I would advise because I think being here on a French employment contract is going to be the gold standard. France far prefers employees to self employed. And any kind of S1 status seems likely to be dodgiest of all. So a French contract and full cotisations paid to URSSAF is clearly the way to go IMHO, if you are already here as an employee I think it will be status quo and nothing to worry about. Just so long as there is nothing specific about your job that needs French qualifications or authorisation like being a doctor or lawyer or something., or French citizenship like being a fonctionnaire, but I think France is ready to act quickly to pass legislation to deal with that if necessary. Yes the driving licence could be a PITA.

I'm very much hoping a CDS will be turn out to be exchangeable with no further questions asked, because it looks like I'll be going to go back to live and work in the UK for a couple of years starting in the new year, absolutely dreadful timing I know, I couldn't have timed it worse if I tried. I'm hoping that if I can get a cds before I leave, then I will have the option of coming back as long as I'm not away for too long. In theory I do have this entitlement I think, but I'm not optimistic. Do they even issue long term cartes de séjour for a first application, or do you always get issued a one-year CDS first?

Used to be that more or less any address would do. Registering a car to a holiday home or a temporary address never used to be an issue. The trouble is that the French system is getting more joined up. There is more to being resident in France than just having an address, you are also expected to have a national insurance number, a taxpayer number etc. The more cross checks the computer does to verify your identify, the fewer loopholes are left open. I think you are on the right track in looking for a French resident who will agree to help you out by registering and insuring a car and putting you on the insurance policy as a named driver. Does this friend not have another friend who might help?

Just to add, another solution of course would be to close the UK business and for your husband to re-start it in France. This would be the simplest and most obvious way forward and would give you the most options in terms of choosing the most advantageous French businesss structure etc, but I've been assuming that there are reasons why you don't want to do that.

@CT, in fact France and the UK have their own DTT so I don't think the tax situation will change. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/france-tax-treaties I don't see income tax being problematic as long as hubby is correctly registered with URSSAF.

@BinB, don't forget that not everyone can or wants to retire early and live in France as inactifs! The OP has indicated that they both intend to carry on working, so my advice is based on that. It's not all about accessing healthcare.

Hello Tartiflette I'm glad you came back because the message I felt I was getting from other posters was that I had misinterpreted the situation and had "hung you out to dry" for no reason at all. The correct solution for your OH is for the company to register him with URSSAF as a France-based employee, on a French employment contract, and pay French social security contributions to URSSAF. I think I gave the link before, but here it is again: https://www.tfe.urssaf.fr/tfewebinfo/cms/lang/en/presentation.html is the platform the firm will use to register him as an employee (called the Foreign Firm Slip), and https://www.urssaf.fr/portail/files/live/sites/urssaf/files/documents/5015-GuideCNFE-UK-2017.pdf is the booklet that explains it all in English. It is a certain amount of faff but it is perfectly do-able and the portal is designed to take you through it; the cotisations will be higher than UK NICs and there will be more admin in producing the monthly payslip, but it will make him will fully legal, he'll have access to healthcare and other social security rights, and he won't have anything to fear from Brexit whatever happens because he'll be classed as a resident employed worker, which is the safest status of all. Whether his employer is inside or outside the EU, is irrelevant. The important thing is to get himself registered with URSSAF before 29 March in worst case scenario, or before the end of any transition period, because I imagine his legal residence in France will be counted as starting on the date his French employment contract started. (As BinB said, setting up a micro entreprise and posing as self employed when you're not really, is not the right solution. That's called disguised employment in the UK and salariat déguisé in France, and technically it's fraud in most if not all countries. People do it to avoid paying their full social dues, because self employed cotisations are considerably lower than combined employer/employee cotisations for a salaried worker, but the penalties in France are particularly severe if it's picked up. Certainly not a good idea if you know your micro entreprise accounts are going to be inspected as part of the carte de séjour procedure.) Regarding your micro entreprise, level of income at the outset is not in fact a criterion that is used to decide whether it is a "genuine and effective business". The authorities do understand that it can take a while to build a business up. What they are looking for is evidence that you have a sound business plan and you are putting in the time and effort to make it work. Clearly yours is a genuine activity so you should have nothing to worry about, after a few months you should be able to demonstrate that you have for instance set up a website (make sure you have all the obligatory mentions légales on it!) and put out publicity and are getting enquiries, and you are sending out devis, issuing invoices and generally building up a client base, or whatever.is appropriate to your activity. They should look at all these things, it's not only about money in the bank although obviously if you can show a good turnover, that will help too.

@BinB but Idun said " they also work from their french home for a UK company .... online. " - didn't mention dividend. That was the other thread. You could be right on that one, it wasn't clearly stated beyond "We have a UK-based company which provides the majority of our income" which as you say could mean dividend only.

https://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?catId=851&langId=en might help too, it gives a good explanation of the basic rule that you can't pay into the social security systems of two EU countries at the same time.

Yep, and further back still there was the haulage company that actually did have a base in the UK, but it got picked up because it had a French phone number on its website and it was proved that the wife had been taking bookings and doing admin work from the couple's home in France. For every case that gets picked up there must be many hundreds that don't but that is no consolation to the unlucky ones that end up with 100s of 1000s of euros fines or even in prison.

HMRC link below explains how tax and social security works for employees of a UK company who live and work abroad. As I think was mentioned in the other thread, the only cases where an employee living and working in another EU state continues to pay NICs in the UK is when the worker is a posted worker (ie temporary) or a frontalier (ie physically works in 2 or more EU states). In both these cases the employee must hold the relevant EU forms issued by the UK to prove that the arrangement has been approved by HMRC. Otherwise, they pay social security in the country where they live and work. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/paying-employees-working-abroad Employee working in another European Economic Area (EEA) country or Switzerland Special rules apply for these employees. Usually, your employee pays social security contributions to the country they’re working in. However, they may have to continue paying UK NICs and will be exempt from paying contributions in the other countries where either: the work abroad is not expected to be for more than 24 months they normally work in 2 or more EEA countries If this is the case, apply to HMRC for a Portable Document A1 (or E101) for the employee so they can continue to pay UK NICs. This will also be evidence that no contributions are due in the other countries.

Well on the face of it, from what you've said, then as said in the other thread, this is irregular. Presumably their UK employer has never been informed that they're living in France/and or is completely unaware of the implications. Which wouldn't be surprising because as has been shown by the Brexit farce there is very little knowledge and understanding in the UK of how freedom of movement and social security coordination actually works. As for how it's policed/monitored, well it isn't as such, which is why no doubt there is a lot of abuse at present. When/if Brexit happens and Brits no longer have FoM, it will stop because sources of revenue etc will be clarified and checked at the visa stage; visa applicants have to explain what they intend to do in France and where their funds will come from, and the carte de séjour they are issued with clearly specifies whether they are or aren't allowed to work in France. But at present Brits are trusted to find out the rules and stick to them and have minimal paperwork checks so the only way it's likely to get picked up is via their tax return (unless they make an enemy locally who finds out what they're doing and decides to snitch them up to DIRECCTE which can happen but very rarely does). Presumably your friend declares it as foreign earned income taxed at source, so the fisc will assume she returns to the UK to work there, and will apply the DTA and simply invoice her for CSG. However if ever her tax return is chosen at random to be checked, that's probably the first thing they would ask about. It's unlikely she is failing to declare this income in France because I think most people are aware that if they live here they have to declare worldwide income here, but if this were to be the case, then apparently the fisc use algorithms to identify cases where the declared income doesn't match the lifestyle and that could flag up further investigation. Realistically your friend may well get away with it for ever. Unfortunately if she doesn't, then the fisc will also look back at previous years and the longer she's been paying tax and social security in the wrong country for, the more difficult and expensive it will be to disentangle and put right. PS There is nothing wrong with being paid a sterling salary into a UK bank account, as long everything is being declared properly and tax and sécu is being paid in the right place. The fact your friend is being paid in the UK doesn't in itself mean that there is any irregularity. But, it is very unusual for UK firms to agree to go down the route of paying French social security contributions because of the hassle and expense.

Tartiflette, I'm sorry and I know you don't want to hear this but the issue is, that changing your residence to France also affects what you can and can't do in the UK, because your status there changes from resident to non resident. So assuming you do actively work for the company, as opposed to being purely sleeping partners, you can't keep your UK business activities in one box and your French business activities in another box, and say "what I do in the UK has nothing to do with France and vice versa". The system doesn't allow that. You can't work in two different EU countries as if resident in both of them, paying into two different social security systems at the same time. EU and national law is very specific on this. Under UK law, if you're not resident in the UK and you're not working in the UK, then you're not entitled to pay NICs, and any salary you pay yourself is not liable to UK tax. So you can't carry on taking your salary through UK payroll as you did when you were resident there. In fact the UK is very slack on this so in practice you probably could, but technically it's incorrect. French law is very specific that all business activities carried out in France must conform to the French code de travail and be registered with URSSAF. The fact that some of the business activities you carry out in France are on behalf of a UK company and/or UK clients, doesn't make those activities outside the scope of French law if they are carried out in France. https://www.urssaf.fr/portail/files/live/sites/urssaf/files/documents/5015-GuideCNFE-UK-2017.pdf "Employees working in France must be registered with the French social security system regardless of their nationality or place of residence." The fact that you also have another separate business activity registered in France, doesn't change this obligation. You can live in France and own a UK registered business, no problem there. If you're a sleeping partner and you don't actually hold a function within the company, you just take dividends, you wouldn't have to register with URSSAF although obviously you would have to declare the dividends to the fisc But if do have an active role as an employee of the company then all the hours you work in France must be recorded and shown on your payslip and paid at SMIC or above etc etc etc etc. Alternatively you can set up a French business structure that acts as a service provider to the UK business but that needs careful planning. So there are various options, but what I'm saying is that setting up a micro entreprise here doesn't take the UK business out of the picture, the issues still have to be dealt with. If you don't want to take my word for it, please get advice from a specialist such as Blevin Franks or one of the other big names, because France takes any failure to meet one's social obligations very seriously.There's a lot of misinformation around on this issue and I'm sure that if you google you'll find plenty of people saying Oh yes you can do this - but they won't pay your fines for you if France decides you can't. FWIW, some of the information here seems pretty sound: https://www.accountingweb.co.uk/any-answers/living-in-france-but-ltd-co-registered-in-uk - but even here there is some confusion, and this is a forum for UK professional accountants, so as you will be realising this is not a simple matter.