Debra

If I hadn't already discovered Boursorama with it's free banking I'd probably have given up my French bank account by now as though there is a limit on cash withdrawals after which you start paying a fee, I rarely withdraw cash but always use a card and there is no limit on spending on that.

I got the debit card free - they advertise it as free every now and then. I've used the account to test out the card but that's all so far. My son uses his both in the UK and when he visits France. It's handy because you can switch money between the UK and French accounts easily, quickly and with no charge - and have the money there to use the debit card when shopping. Son used it in Mallorca last week too.

It's not often the service public site has it wrong? Why would it become worthless?  Especially a permanent residence card - that right is unconditional.  Although I wouldn't have just taken the word from the British Embassy as they're always a bit behind in figuring things out, I'm happy to take the word of the Ministry of the Interior that the card isn't worthless after brexit and in fact is more valuable than waiting until after it to get one.

I was waiting for this account to become available to private account holders but in the  meantime, I opened a Revolut account for currency transfer as they offer the same rate as Transferwise but with no fees, so it works out better.  They gave me a free bank account number for both the UK and France, so I can use the debit card in either currency and also have income paid directly into those accounts if I wish to.  I haven't done that so far because it's free to upload money directly to Revolut with my existing UK bank debit card (unlike with Transferwise, who charge a fee to do that) and it's instant.  I'm testing it all out though as I may eventually just stop using my UK bank account as they've been annoying me for years and I can't see any benefit of staying with them any longer. 

I prefer free banking with Boursorama.  If you're interested, let me know and I'll send you a link which will give us both a bonus if you open an account :)

Yes and if she gets her Irish Passport to prove that she is still an EU Citizen after brexit, if she is exercising treaty rights that would mean you could also retain freedom of  movement as her family member.  I recommend that those with an EU Citizen spouse apply for their carte de sejour UE/EEE/SUISSE as a family member for this reason and still before the cut off date because it still acts as proof that you were here before the exit day and so will have rights under the withdrawal agreement, if it's ratified. It may seem like it's not necessary to get one now (though you will need one later) if your spouse is an EU Citizen who is exercising treaty rights but getting one to prove your rights under the withdrawal agreement means you get the guarantees re social security, healthcare and pensions as well as the improved up to 5 year right of return without loss of permanent residence rights.

I was told by the prefecture that my carte de sejour was proof of my rights and not official ID.  My bank and La Poste accept it as ID.  I didn't realise that it could be accepted as ID for travel but I suppose that does make sense since even third country nationals are allowed to travel within the Schengen area without the need for a visa for up to 3 months if they have a long term resident card from an EU member state.

"Si vous avez des revenus fonciers, précisez sur la déclaration 2047 (cadre 4) l’adresse de vos propriétés situées hors de France. Puis, déclarez les revenus provenant de ces propriétés sur la déclaration 2044 , dans les mêmes conditions que les revenus encaissés en France. Reportez les résultats au paragraphe 4 de la déclaration 2042." https://www.impots.gouv.fr/portail/particulier/questions/comment-seront-imposes-mes-revenus-percus-de-letranger You don't get any choice when you declare it online as it takes you to that form automatically.

BritinBretagne: "What? UK income is declared on the 2047 not the 2044." If you declare rental income net as foncieres, not gross as micro foncieres, then you also have to complete the 2044 form, to back up the net figure you've declared.

No. That's your UK tax allowance and nothing to do with your French return. If you declare your income net of expenses in those boxes then you have to back that up with the detail on the 2044 form. If you declare micro fonciere then you don't deduct expenses - just declare the gross income and they allow 30% for expenses.

I declare the gross and list expenses in both countries (reel in France) but when I declared as micro fonciere in France I declared the gross amount as under that system you don't deduct expenses but get an allowance of 30% for them. So this year, under reel, I've filled out the gross rent and expenses on the 2044 and the net is then reported to 4BA, 4BL and 8TK. My 'expenses' don't include UK tax. Last year, under micro fonciere, I put my gross rental receipts in 4BE, 4BK and 8TK. I used that system as my expenses were at or under 30% anyway but this year they were much more than that and they will be next year too so I declared reel. People in this thread seem to be saying they declare the net amount in France, even deducting UK tax, which isn't correct because you'd then get another 30% allowance against that amount in France, so by declaring net of both UK tax and expenses in France, you're underdeclaring by the amount of the UK tax and expenses. Your gross has always got to be declared in France one way or the other. Either only that and you get the 30% expenses allowance (micro fonciere) or that and also declare expenses to get the actual amount of expenses allowed (fonciere/reel). The amount of UK taxes paid aren't mentioned. They are irrelevant as the fact that the income is subject to tax in the UK is the reason the French tax is credited out. The taxes mentioned on the 2044 refer to property taxes, not income tax.

British Citizenship can be acquired in the following ways: lex soli: By birth in the UK or a qualified British Overseas Territory to a parent who is a British citizen at the time of the birth, or to a parent who is settled in the UK or that Overseas Territorylex sanguinis: By birth abroad, which constitutes "by descent" if one of the parents is a British citizen otherwise than by descent (for example by birth, adoption, registration or naturalisation in the UK). British citizenship by descent is only transferable to one generation down from the parent who is a British citizen otherwise than by descent, if the child is born abroad.By naturalisationBy registrationBy adoptionSo for my son's kids to be British he either needs to reproduce with a British woman who was born in Britain or ship the mother of his children off to the UK or an Overseas Territory to give birth. It sounds like it gets very complicated for people born before 1 January 1983.

A lot changed with the British Nationality Act 1981, which took effect in January 1983.  Wikipedia has the history of it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_nationality_law

[quote user="NormanH"][quote user="Chancer"]Debra.   That was the first reasoned justification I have seen for applying for a C.D.S. and makes complete sense. [/quote]  I have renewed it twice; the first time was for its convenience as a card I could carry which was understood by the French anywhere, and this second time very simply because it short circuits all the Business of having to produce documents and justifications that will be needed for any new system that is put in place. [/quote]Exactly.  All we should need at renewal is proof of continuity of residence.  Some prefectures accept avis d'impots for the duration of the previous card alone.  Some require a utility bill per semester to prove you've lived here since that card was issued.  A lot less than I needed to get the card in the first place.  Plus the criminality check - which I think my prefecture already does as it's one of those who require fingerprints (if not they could easily do it from what they already have).

Re AnOther's comment about my situation not being common: there are actually quite a lot of people who can't use their latest five years here as their qualifying period for permanent residence rights.  In my case it was because when I separated from my ex I had a drastic drop in income for a while (unluckily, my tenant gave notice the month after he went back to the UK, so that added to the usual problems of separating).  After five years, income as an EU Citizen is irrelevant - but to get your permanent residence rights recognised you have to prove that for five qualifying years, you had the right level of income or were working or a student (with limits as to how long you can be unemployed and still retain the right to stay). Some people have had a period of unemployment which is longer than is allowed under EU freedom of movement rules and need to use an earlier period because of that.  Quite a lot of pensioners may be affected because the UK state pension isn't a high enough income to be legally resident ( apparently there are a quite a lot of people who only have that as their income) once they are over age 65.  So they could have come here with enough income under age 65 but that was no longer enough once they were over 65 (more income needed over age 65 as an EU Citizen in France because ASPA, the income support for those over 65, is higher than RSA, the income support for people under age 65).  So there may be a lot of people who have to do what I did and prove a 5 year period from years ago and then prove continuity of residence since then - and if they don't get a card, keep storing up that continuity of residence documentation just in case they are asked to prove their rights - not just those who had a  marriage breakdown that affected their financial situation.

One of the things some campaigners are hoping for is to continue as we do now and not have a cds but only have to prove our right to stay by 'other means' as and when necessary.  In my view that is impractical because everyone will end up in my position with the ever growing folder - the wheelbarrow method.  This is because even those who only need to provide the latest five years' documentation to prove their rights under the withdrawal agreement will then have to add to that file every six months with ongoing documentation to keep up the continuity of residence proof after brexit.  Much easier for all concerned to just insist that we will need a carte de sejour.

See this document on page 9 for the originally published question and answer (I'd copy and paste it but I seem to lose all the formatting when I do that) : https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/beta-political/files/2017-12-12_qa_citizens_rights.pdf

AnOther not all of us would be landlocked anyway if the agreement that has been made so far is all that is agreed.  It's those of us who are not working and are self sufficient who could be landlocked but even then, only with regards to moving to live permanently in another EU member state.  We'd still have rights to visit for up to 3 months accorded to us via our EU permanent resident status. The Q&A answer to that question on the Europa site has been amended since it was first published, when it answered in great detail about the rights we could have as third country nationals.  Apparently British in Europe requested this change because they felt that to start talking about third country national rules in relation to us was premature and might panic people (or maybe they thought it would remove the momentum to argue for total freedom of movement for us?).  I actually thought it would be helpful to a lot of people (just not me and others who aren't working or students :) ).

Cathar Tours I can go back to the UK for up to two years at the moment without losing my rights.  If the withdrawal agreement is ratified with the citizens' rights part as it's been agreed so far, that will be extended to five years.  However, there is an ambiguity about what happens to those who aren't resident in the EU on brexit day.  My son, for instance, is no longer resident here but retains a right to return for up to two years (if he'd moved after brexit day it would be five years) but does he still retain that right if he's not resident here on the cut off date?  As I've said, I've seen analysis of the agreement that argue both sides.  One argument is that he would be covered by implication because he has EU Citizenship rights on brexit day, even if he isn't currently here.  The other is that he'd have no rights, not being resident on brexit day, and so would have to return under whatever the new rules are if he came back after the UK had left.  The rules could be the EU third country  national rules in existence now or a special set of rules agreed during the future relationship negotiations.  Under third country national rules there are family reunification rights for 'dependant' offspring over the age of 21 (which he will be next year) so all may not be lost (as far as I can tell I'd have to be sending him  maintenance payments in the UK that he needs to live on).  However, under those rules there is still the requirement for me to have 'stable' income - which as I explained, takes out a good part of my income as foreign rental income isn't classed as stable in France.  So I could have permanent residence rights myself and the nature of my income may be irrelevant to my own right to stay here and to the rights of my children who are still living here - but if my eldest son wants to return to France it could be the third country national rules that will apply to our right for reunification.  That's the way the current agreement is written - future family reunifications will be assessed under local immigration law, which in France's case is the EU third country national rules.

[quote user="alittlebitfrench"]So it is your kids and their education that is holding you back ? Something I said for myself in other thread. I would not worry to much about Brexit. Nothing will change.[/quote]Holding me back?  That sounds as if I definitely want to move back to the UK.   I have property here and kids settled here and though I may decide to move on at some future point, I'd like that to be my choice when I am ready and have time to organise such a move (if indeed there is one).  I don't know what my future holds but at the moment I'd rather do anything I can to protect the choices I have now, as far as I can. It's nice that you're so sure that things won't change but personally I don't think that view is practical.

[quote user="alittlebitfrench"]@ Debra Here is a question for you. Given the choice and all things being equal, would you choose (any location in the UK of your choice) to live in France or the UK ?[/quote]In future, I don't know.  At the moment I have a child in primary school and one at university who I wouldn't want to disrupt by moving.  Once they are up and independant I might fancy a change - not necessarily to the UK, maybe to somewhere different?  I have property I need to sell before I could seriously consider relocation and that can take time.  Meanwhile, I'd prefer to have the choice to stay or go, as I do now.  The thought of going back to the UK and losing the right to come back to France makes me nervous (one of my kids is definitely staying here and the one at uni possibly - he's applied for naturalisation) so I'd really need to be sure before I risked doing that.  By the time my son in uni finishes and is independant it may be too late to risk my youngest moving education systems.  The next few years is a bit iffy to move either of them really - brexit has come at an awkward time for me but I may have more flexibility in a few years' time and I'll decide then, obviously depending on what my situation is then.  Hopefully I'll retain the freedom to decide then. I'm a bit concerned that my eldest has gone back to the UK and may lose his permanent residence rights in France if he's not living here on brexit day.  I've seen legal analysis of the citizens' rights agreement that go both ways - one saying he'll retain the right to return that he has now and it may even be extended to the new five year rule and another saying he won't, but will slip through the net.

Maybe some people think it's no big deal because they currently qualify as being legally resident under either EU or non EU rules?  Some of us don't and need to produce a file proving a five year qualifying period from years ago (it was ten in my case) plus proof of continuity of residence since then.  If you only need to produce the last five years it's more simple. A concern for me is whether my income would be considered stable if we had to apply under non EU rules and didn't retain our permanent residence rights under existing EU law as EU Citizens.  Third country nationals have the same income requirements as you need to apply for naturalisation (stable income of SMIC net in my case, more than I need under EU Citizen rules).  I have the correct amount of income but it's not classed as 'stable' under those rules.  A good part of my income is UK rental income - and foreign rental income is not classed as stable (French rental income is).  For this reason alone I decided I'd best apply for the permanent cds in the hope that the rights it docoments (permanent residence with no further conditions) will continue to be recognised by France in future, if not the EU as a whole.

nomoss British Citizenship can only be passed down by one generation if you're not born there.  My son was born in France but can't pass his British Citizenship onto his children unless they are born in the UK.  I'll claim his French Citizenship for him as soon as he gets to age 13.  He doesn't technically need it as his children would be French if born here because otherwise they would be stateless but I'd rather claim it for him and secure his rights within the EU for as long as France is still in it. A permanent cds comes in useful if ever your circumstances change and you are asked to prove your right to stay.  I had a nightmare period when I separated from my ex and both the UK and France denied being my competent state.  Child benefits stopped, healthcare stopped.  It took nearly three years to sort it and during that time I had to produce that huge file which proved my permanent right to stay many times.  I was advised by SOLVIT, whom I eventually had to call in to help get my EU rights recognised, to obtain a permanent cds as this would easily prove my rights from then on rather than having to carry an ever growing folder of proof with  me to any appointments with the bureaucracy. In the relief that all was sorted, I didn't actually apply for it back then - but I soon sorted it after the referendum.  As AnOther says, it's better than not having it and better than having to use the wheelbarrow method again in future (which is what would be needed to carry all my paperwork proof in another few years).  To swap this one for the new one all I'll need is proof of continuity of residence (avis d'impots and a utility bill per semester since it was issued) and a criminality check - which I suspect has already been done anyway, since they took my fingerprints and already have all the rest of the info needed to do one.

As I've said elsewhere, I don't believe that people with S1 forms or private healthcover are chargeable for these supplementary cotisations because they are not 'a la charge de France'.  If anyone with PHI or an S1 receives a bill they should contest it and send details of their cover.

Would you prefer we compare the UK to every other country who does not disenfranchise their citizens when they move abroad? A few countries have time limits on expats' voting rights - mostly those who were previously connected to the UK.